Spanking and the Bible

[Su Wei]

Originally posted by gb93433:
We must remember that Proverbs are collections of wise sayings that are principles and not promises. I have seen too many talk about training a child up in the way he should go and when he is old he will not depart from it. If these were promises we wouldn't have any wayward children of godly parents. We do know that some of the most evil leaders in the world have been exposed to christianity. Yet they have chosen to go their own way. It is genrally true that when you raise your children to be godly men and women that they will follow their parents in that way. But there are no guarantees.

One only has to take a look at Judas and Jesus and Eli and his sons.

I believe they are promises. that's why i'm working hard on training my children. If it wasn't a promise and it could turn out 50-50 either way, I wouldn't try as hard.

Proverbs 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

so if the child grows up rebellious, I'd check the training and not doubt God's Words.

gb mentions that many evil leaders had exposure to Christianity. That's not enough and we did not see holistically what training they really recieved from their parents or whoever they were in contact with when they were growing up.

I want so much for my children to grow up and be of use in God's service! Perhaps not in full time service, but as long as they can hear His voice and obey His command, i'll be glad and sure that they'll be happy and blessed all their lives. That's why we train them to obey us. One day, they'll obey their heavenly Father.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Originally posted by Abiyah:
It is mainly that some people have no idea that discipline is not equal to striking a child.

This is a perfect statement Abiyah. I do not even think that spanking should be referred to as corporal punishment. Discipline is instruction and Solomon, inspired divinely by the Holy Spirit, wrote that at times discipline may involve a sparing, loving use of the rod. We used corporal chastening with our children, as Hebrews 12v9,10 points out we did make mistakes. However we have striven to do so correctly as Su Wei described. We have six children aged from 24 down to 8. It has been about five years since any one of them has been spanked. Our oldest 3 have of course been out from under the rod for a long time, but God used what we feel to be Biblical discipline to teach the other 3 as well.

I appreciate your feelings on discipline Abiyah, my only real disagreement with you comes on the validity of Proverbs. It is as much the Word of God as John 3v16. If we dismiss one part I think that frees us up to dismiss any of it.

 

[Abiyah]

Christ4Kildare wrote, "I appreciate your feelings on discipline Abiyah, my only real disagreement with you comes on the validity of Proverbs. It is as much the Word of God as John 3v16. If we dismiss one part I think that frees us up to dismiss any of it."

I know. I understand your idea on that and struggle with it. Admittedly, I question the validity of Proverbs and Ecclesiastes being a part of the Bible (hope none of my pastors or teachers read that!), but at the same time, I know that they are valuable for reading and following, for the great part. I am glad that they are available to us. I love the humor in them as well -- such humor as the proverb that it is better to dwell in an attic than to live with a loud and vicious woman in a wide house. Love it! HOW TRUE!

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Why do you question Proverbs and Ecclesiastes? Is it because of your experiences? Is there some other reason?

Joseph Botwinick

 

[Abiyah]

Another reason.

 

[Walls]

Originally posted by Abiyah:
Unlike you, I cannot sit here and say that Solomon's words are the words of our God. I also see no references to our Lord teaching spanking or doing it. Rather than following in the footsteps of Solomon, I would follow in our Lord's footsteps.

Would you consider Paul's words the Word of God? Heb 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

 

[Walls]

Originally posted by gb93433:
We must remember that Proverbs are collections of wise sayings that are principles and not promises. I have seen too many talk about training a child up in the way he should go and when he is old he will not depart from it. If these were promises we wouldn't have any wayward children of godly parents. We do know that some of the most evil leaders in the world have been exposed to christianity. Yet they have chosen to go their own way. It is genrally true that when you raise your children to be godly men and women that they will follow their parents in that way. But there are no guarantees.

One only has to take a look at Judas and Jesus and Eli and his sons.

Just an observation, but the majority of wayward Christian children are because the parents spent to much time in the ministry or fellowshipping that they failed to do their parental job!

 

[Abiyah]

I so disagree with you. Your experience is yours; mine are mine; but in my experience, the most difficult children have been those whose parents' main mode of discipline was spanking. Nowhere NOWHERE did our God say that this was to be our discipline, yet many well-meaning parents are too lazy to get invloved enough in their children's lives to use other means more than spanking.

 

[Pastor_Bob]

Originally posted by Abiyah:
Nowhere NOWHERE did our God say that this was to be our discipline...

Hebrews 12:4-11 compares God's "chastening" to a father chastening his children. Verse 6 is a key verse to the "spanking" issue.

Heb 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. (KJV)

The word "scourgeth" is the Greek word "μαστιγοο"; it literally means, "to flog." It comes from another Greek word "μαστιχ" which means, "a whip; literally, the Roman flagellum for criminals."

I believe this passage, along with the Holy Spirit inspired passages in Proverbs, states a pretty clear case for this type of discipline.

 

[Abiyah]

Pastor Bob --

What I intended to write was "Nowhere NOWHERE did our God say that this was to be our only discipline . . . ." Sorry!

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

It is very difficult to argue that corporal disciple in unbiblical, saying that it should NEVER be the only means of discipline. In fact, it should not be all that is involved in any discipline situation. If you separate spanking from Biblical instruction all you have left is hitting.

 

[MaryKate]

I thank everyone so much for the replys! I love reading everyones opinion on this topic!

 

[Su Wei]

ANother good book (though some may not agree):

Hints on Child Training by H. Clay Trumbull

I can't remember where i read it but spanking is should be only a very small percentage of interaction with our child.

It must be lots of positive interaction, loving guidance, lots of play.

Happiness, joy and laughter.

I believe the only way for the child to be truly happy is when the child knows his place and finds security in knowing his boundaries, which is enforced by the rod when the boundary is crossed.
My husband always tells my son, "A happy child is an obedient child."
My husband is the main disciplinarian in the house and the children love him to bits coz he loves to play and spend time with them talking to them, teaching them about God.

 

[Abiyah]

Su --

You wrote that "I believe the only way for the child to be truly happy is when the child knows his place and finds security in knowing his boundaries, which is enforced by the rod when the boundary is crossed."

I just wanted to tell you that those children who are not reared with spanking but with discipline are also very happy children who know their boundaries and those of others'. However, the idea of rearing a child in this manner is not to produce a good child; rather its focus is in producing a good adult. The whole focus is on the child's adulthood, rather than on the child's childhood. This is not a parenting concept for the lazy or for the parent who does not have a LOT of time to apply to the child/children, with the child/children often being the absolute focus.

I was fortunate, during the main formative years, that I was a SAHM whose absolute focus was my children. I was widowed through most of these years, and did not have the male influence in the home or even from outside of it, however, and that was certainly detrimental. Our God certainly filled in many of those holes Himself, when even the church community would not help. I did have the fortune of certain male influence from the children's Baptist school through some of that time.

Those were 10 good years -- those years alone with my children. We did everything together -- traveled, went to church camps, picnicked, went sight-seeing around our own city, played games, told stories, etc. Oh, I could do it again!!!

 

[timothy 1769]

Abiyah said:
I also see no references to our Lord teaching spanking or doing it. His actions, as stated in the Bible, were great tenderness and guidance toward them, encouraging, advising, etc. Rather than following in the footsteps of Solomon, I would follow in our Lord's footsteps.

Joh 2:14-15
(14) And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting:
(15) And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;

Heb 12:5-6
(5) And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
(6) For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.