Speaking in tongues / why does it always sound the same???

Xdisciplex: //why does it always sound the same???//

IMHO (in my humble opinion) the sound of the speaking
in unknown tongues is obvious but different.
The language one learns determines which syllables one
can say. (One learns this by 5 or 6, which is why people
who learn to speak a language after adulthood speak with
an accent.) So Russian speakers will use slightly different
speach patterns so their unknown tongue will have a Russian
sound to it. My unknown tongue has a Okie sound to it

xdisciplex: //Isn't this really strange? And this is on fluent language.
Most of the time they repeat a few "words" over and over again.
This doesn't seem real to me.//

I once noticed a woman saying "ah-ba-ba-ba ... " I counted once:
13 'ba's. This is NOT like normal speach at all.

Here is a contrived sentence that has a syllable repeated
5 times

Had Had had had had?

had-1 - 'had' used to form a question
Had-2 - a person's name
had-3 - 'had' denoting 'previously possessed'
had-4 - 'had' denoting 'used'
had-5 - short for a type of fish, the haddoc

Had this person previously possed some used fish?

Meanwhile, back at the Private Prayer Language corner
(I don't speak in public in unknown tonugues, the by-laws
of my local church preclude there being anybody there who
can interpret unknown tongues )

Back about 35 years ago I was reading a Scientific Journal which
showed that the brain has a part that fires out syllables
(the ones you learned for your language before you were
5 or 6 years old); another part that censors those syllables
so you can make some sence in what you say.
I found that if the censor part of the brain is more subject to the type of
clinical depression I had than is the
syllable initiator portion of the brain.
Ah, then i can just shut off the censor part of the brain
(assuming i'm not doing some significant brain function
like driving, etc) and get away from the pain of mental
depression for awile. Ah, then the Private Prayer Language
has some use, if one is prone to mental depression.

In this regard, there are two things I'm not sure of:

1. is it more holy to have your syllable censor part of your
brain inactive than active?

2. Is is important to take time to teach these calming techniques
in church? (more important that other things you can do
like teaching people how to cope with guilt? get along with
others? get in touch with God?)

 

Ed,

I firmly believe that our wills, guided by a thorough knowledge of God's Written Word should sense the Spirit even of our Prayer Language and censor what we sense is not of God...

It is this attitude of my Pentecostal Peers that drives me crazy...

To believe that because you are a Tongue Talker you can say no wrong, do no wrong, and can not be decieved...

IMHO, is _NOT_ wise...

To summarize... I do _NOT_ believe it is God's Will that we put our wills in suspension and allow ourselves to operate unchecked...

IMHO, we are expected to be intelligent, knowledgable, and willing participants with God...

Not a mouthpiece on auto-pilot...

Mike Sr.

 

I've read Jack Hayford who believes the practice can be taught. If it comes from the Spirit of God, why would a person have to be taught how to speak in tongues?

I believe it can be genuine in some instances, but as the OP stressed, it seems fake when you hear the same "utterances" repeated over and over.

I wonder if some do it from pressure or some to appear of feel more spiritual.

"Ahhh, barlllack-a-shem..." over and over.

 

A couple of questions for those who practice speaking in tongues:

Can you turn it on and off at will? Can you just decide to do it?

If you can, why would you want to?

If you can't, are you risking placing yourself under the power of something other than the Holy Spirit. How do you know it is Holy Spirit-induced and controlled, and not a counterfeit?

This is not an adversarial query, but a sincere request for information?

 

All "nice" the problem is that the key focus in 1Cor 14 is "Tongues are a sign for UNBELIEVERS". That only works if tongues are languages. An atheist, an agnostic, a Jew... will not be impressed by "humble jibberish". In fact the text of 1Cor 14 makes that point clear. It does not even consider the notion of yelling - it is purely a question in 1Cor 14 of Jibberish heard by an unbeliever who then would say "you are mad".

There is no escaping this.

In 1Cor 14 the "Jibberish" problem is not the bogus examples we have today - rather it is a case of speaking a language that is not understood by one but is understood by others AND is also clearly understood by the one speaking.

In 1Cor 14 case of tongues both the TIMING and the CONTENT are determine "by man". But in 1Cor 14 NEITHER the Timing NOR the CONTENT are determined by man in the case of Prophecy.

We see that clearly in that the contrast between them has a prophet speaking who must sit down in the middle of their presentation IF ANOTHER gets a message while the first is standing and communicating!

that is in direct contrast to tongues in 1Cor 14.


In Christ,

Bob

 

Tom,

If we could not 'shut down' the flow would it be possible to be responsible in the Gift?

I am very convinced we are responsible to at least monitor the flow...

Whether it is a Prayer Language or a Prophetic Version...

There are two reason why I would want to start such a flow...

If I start in my own understanding and use it as a means to start an intercessory session with the Holy Spirit who prays with utterances and groanings that can not be uttered...

If I know it is the Spirit praying through me then I can have confidence that I am praying according to God's Will...

If I know that I am praying according to God's Will, I know that He is Hearing Me...

If I know He hears me then I have confidence my prayer will be answered. That I will have my petition..

This encourages me and gives me confidence I might not have otherwise...

If I am operating in the prophetic mode of tongues (public utterance requiring interpretation) than it edifies the whole church which is also a good thing.

When I pray in the Spirit I do not always know the verbatim of what I am praying. But, I do know the 'gist' of what I am praying...

As for "risks"...

Yes, I believe there are risks...

That's precisely why John wrote that we are to try the spirits to see if they are of God or not...

Also, Paul wrote that we should be aware that no one Speaking by the Holy Spirit will call Jesus cursed...

So, yes, I would say that people without a good working knowledge of God's Word are susceptable to being decieved...

I will go further and say that a lack of understanding of the working of the Holy Spirit on both sides of the aisle is responsible for the numbers of Nuts, Fruits, and Flakes in the Pentecostal/Charismatic Movements...

I say this because, 'My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge'. Hosea 4:6

And, often people will use conflict and challenge as an excuse to continue questionable behavior.

People who are 'naturally spiritually sensitive' are more vulnerable than others because if they do not become Berean they are subject to being compromised and falling prey to doctrines of devils...

Mike Sr.
Another eason why is there is a measure of His Presence that is not 'felt' outside of operating in His Gifts...

This is one of the reasons why some Penetcostals appears so addicted to "The Gifts"...

In His Presence is Fullness of Joy...

Even strongly sensing His Smile is something most would die to repeat...

The only thing I can share that even compares is how high off the floor I was walking after my Son, our first born, was born...

 

If I was going to learn tongues, I would try to learn some tongues that no one else was using. Jesting aside though, when I was young I was taken to a pentacostal training camp, I mean church, and whisked off to a sunday school class where the teachers were indeed teaching all the children how to speak in tongues. They told me how to do it and offered me a prize if I would do it for them, but I was really not hip to the idea. I was about 10 years old I think. Looking back, I think they were trying to get me saved.

 

SMM, you quoted Romans where it talks about groanings which CANNOT be uttered and used it as a argument for uttering words that the speaker does not understand. Do you see the flaw in that. The Holy Spirit is what makes us sensitive to the needs of others. He draws us to God and unifies us with others. He helps us keep our prayers focused in the right place. I just can't see how praying in Gibberish (private prayer language) could help us focus on our spiritual growth and more importantly focus on the needs of others. For example: During prayer we often will get those directions on what to do for someone else. Be it giving money or helping them in some way. The Holy Spirit groans out for us and helps us to see what we should do next. That is because we are the hands and feet of Christ and He has works for us to do. The Romans passage is not about selfish fulfillment but rather about what the Holy Spirit longs for us to do.

Bob made a good point ( I don't think I have ever said that before - LOL) Anyway, Tongues were a sign to unbelievers, but not just any unbelievers, they were a sign to unbelieving Isreal. The sign pointed to an upcoming judgement and destruction. This happened in 70AD when Isreal was scattered. See if Isaiah 28, (quoted by Paul in 1 Cor. 14, right before he says tongues are a sign for unbelievers) matches what we know happened to Isreal in 70AD. If it does then Tongues have to be gone. Signs cease after what they are pointing to happens. If the detruction of Isreal in 70AD does not match what Isaiah 28 speaks of, then the sign of Tongues is still around and Isreal is still going to be judged and destroyed, etc... and this "sign" has been in place for going on 2000 years. Those are the two choices here, in context of what Paul taught in regards to tongues.

In Christ,
Brian

 

Personal position- I may or may not agree, but a great comment, regardless!



Ed

 

Briguy,

They cannot be uttered in your normal voice...

Obviously, you've never *really* prayed a true intercessory prayer where you were so broken over sin in the church and the need for revival that you were soaking wet with sweat and weeping at the top of your voice?

Somethings got to come out...

If tongues were a sign *ONLY* to the non-believer and only to the Jews why were they discoursed to the Gentile Church of Corinthians to be used for the edification of the church?

They are part of the Gifts Distributed Several to the church by the Holy Spirit for the Churches Edification...

The Manifestations of the Holy Spirit are a package group....

You cesseate one you cessate all...

Mike Sr.

 

SMM, because tongues were a real spiritual gift at that time, they had to edify the church because that is what spiritual "gifts" were for. They were to edify the body, NOT the individual. In a way you just argued against yourself. You are putting your own meaning into the Romans verse. "can't be uttered" means what it says. If I can't speak in english because my voice won't work, I won't be able to speak in Spanish either.

The Holy Spirit leads us in what to pray, I think you said that as well. Yes, I have wept in prayer many times. I don't recall sweating but then again I live in WI.

As for tongues usge in the body. A tongue speaker could speak in a foreign language they did not know to a individual or group of people who spoke that language. It was miraculous!! That "miracle" was the "sign" to the Jews. God's signs are a show of His power because they confirm that the message of the sign is really from God. SMM, if you could invite a russian speaking person into your church and them give him the gospel in Russian, even though you don't speak Russian, that would be a miracle. If a gifted interpreter interpreted that Russian message to the rest of the church that would be a miracle. What I just said was how the gift of tongues worked in the early church and how the whole assembly was edified by tongues. What I just described does not happen anymore and so I know the gift of tongues has long passed, just as Paul said it would.

In Christ,
Brian

 

We will have to disagree Briguy... But, we both knew that already.

 

A real language can sound like gibberish, especially if it is repeated phrases, so I wouldn't say this isn't real tongues necessarily.

On the other hand, I do suspect that some people just learn to repeat some gibberish and think that is really speaking in tongues, psychological tongues, if you will.

I've heard speaking in tongues that sounds like real languages.

 

That would be a strange thing for a Pentecostal like Jack Heyford to believe. Pentecostals usually don't believe tongues can be taught.

Are you sure he didn't mean you can teach someone what the Bible says about being baptized with the Holy Spirit and how to open up to recieve--something along those lines? That's different from saying 'repeat after me...' What exactly did he say?

 

Link, I agree it sounds strange for such a thing to be attributed to Jack Hayford...

It just doesn't sound like the Jack Hayford I've read and watched...

If any Tongues are 'taught', they are 'taught' by the Holy Spirit...

If they are 'taught' by man then they are _not_ supernatural tongues...

 

How To Speak in Tongues

This is typical of many or most of Charismatic websites.
DHK

 

Who is Chuck Cunningham?

And, what does he have to do with the conversation about Jack Hayford?

Just from you quote...

I would be leery of him...

He doesn't represent me or any of the churches I've been a part of...

Mike Sr.

 

Okay, I know this post is SUPER old, but it was the first thing that came up on my google search so I figured people may be still reading it.

Firstly, I would claim that the fact that everyone is saying the same things is actually confirmation that they are indeed speaking in tongues. Most people recognize that there are two types of tongues, which others here talked about so I won't go into it.

Firstly, when we speak in the tongue that often sounds to people like "gibberish", we are not speaking gibberish at all, but what many believe to be the language of the Spirit. With any language, we all use the same words and phrases, so I don't see why it would be different with tongues.

Second, when we speak in tongues (and I speak from my own experience), we are not thinking about what we're saying at all. The words just pour out as we feel the Spirit overflowing in us. There are not English words to express what we are feeling, so we speak in tongues. And yes, for some reason I do repeat the same phrases sometimes over and over again. I am not at all thinking about what I'm saying nor do I know what I'm about to say until the words come out, so I don't know why the phrases repeat, but in Scripture even the angels repeat things ("holy, holy, holy is the Lord)

I am also an interpreter of the tongues that I speak (I haven't tried to interpret others), and again when I interpret I am not thinking about it, the words just come out as I'm speaking. However, I cannot interpret everything because, again, there are not enough words in English or any worldly language.

I hope this helps, God bless.

 

Agreed, as it always sounds like gibberish!

 

Just curious where in the Bible is that personal worship tongue listed? And why would we still need public tongues if we now have the full canon of scriptures from God?