Speaking in tongues

[ONENESS]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> This is the old Charismatic line: "You can't deny my experience." So, just like every other cult you have an authority greater than the Bible--your experience. You trust in your experiences more than you trust the Word of God. The Scripturalness of tongues must stand or fall on an objective study of the Word of God alone, not on your subjective experiences.
DHK <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well based on the word of God, you cant show me where it is not for us. You cant deny what happened on the Day of Pentecost, In Acts 8, In Acts 10, and in Acts 19. You cant deny that.

You cant deny the fact the Paul told them "FORBIN NOT to speak in tongues" You cant deny the fact that the Holy Ghost is for all of us today.

But my friend, we have an experience that is BACED on the WORD OF GOD.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>"You can't deny my experience." So, just like every other cult you have an authority greater than the Bible--your experience. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Every other cult uhhh? I guess your first pope was in a cult too. He did it before I did. Im just following what they Taught. The whole book of Acts does a really good job at explaining the APostles Doctrine.

ACTS 2:38

 

[Briguy]

MME and oneness, The "gift of Tongues" was used as follows:

A person would come into a gathered assembly of believers and not speak the language that was being preached. A person with the "gift of tongues" would stand up and share the gospel - message(mini sermon) with the person in their language. Now, the problem is that if left it like that the only edified person would be the stranger who came to the church, so a person with the "gift of interpretation would stand up and summerize the message for the rest of the assembly thus edifying everyone. You see that is why Paul said that an Interpreter had to be present for someone to use the gift. Think about it, you had to know a head of time who the interpreters were for you to make the decision whether or not to use your gift of tongues. 1 cor. 12:7 (I think) is clear that ALL GIFTS are used to edify the body ONLY. Oh yea, the reason Paul did not forbid the speaking of tongues, for those who had the gift, is because 1 cor. was written 20ish years before Isreal was scattered. It was a real gift then and Paul spoke of it as such. It is not mentioned in any later NT books, think about that as well. Keep studying and be open to the clear TRUTH on this subject. Please take what I wrote in light of what the Bible actually says!!

In Christ,
Brian

 

[ONENESS]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I find it interesting that generally Pentecostals are the only ones who speak in tongues. If speaking in tongue is truly a gift that God bestows upon you, I don't think you'd be able to fight it. Therefore, I don't see why random people on the street wouldn't start speaking in tongue. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well the only explanation for that would be.... We are not the only group that is speaking in tongues.

On pentecost Sunday in 1998, i believe it was June 11, but not sure. Anyway There was a Baptist preacher that brought his two daughters to the service who know nothing about speaking in tongues. Well at the end of the service we had an alter call like we do every service and Guess what Happened to those two girls for the very first time. They started Speaking in tongues as the Spirit gave the utterance. Now That Baptist preacher could do nothing but accept the fact that it happened to his own two daughters.

There are the Baptist, The Methodist, The nondenominationals, the CATHOLICS....

Now I guess that sums it up. GOd is still pouring his spirit out. And you know that b.c when you recieve the Holy GHost you will speak in tongues too.

JEsus said in John 3:8

8. The wind bloweth * where it listeth * , and thou hearest * the sound thereof, but canst * not tell * whence it cometh * , and whither it goeth * : so is * every one that is born * of the Spirit.

thou hearest * the sound thereof but canst * not tell * whence it cometh * , and whither it goeth * so is * every one that is born * of the Spirit.

When a person is born of the Spirit you will hear a sound people. And that sound is tongues

Acts 10:44

44. While Peter yet spake * these words, the Holy Ghost fell * on all them which heard * the word.

45. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished * , as many as came with * Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out * the gift of the Holy Ghost.

46. For they heard * them speak with * tongues, and magnify * God. Then answered * Peter,

47. Can * any man forbid * water, that these should * not be baptized * , which have received * the Holy Ghost as well as we?

48. And he commanded * them to be baptized * in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they * him to tarry * certain days.

45. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished * , as many as came with * Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out * the gift of the Holy Ghost.46. for they HEARD THEM SPEAK WITH TONGUES, AND MAGNIFY GOD. Then answered Peter

See its kind of intresting on what happend to the Gentiles in Acts 10.

An Angel came to Cornelius and told him that you need to go to Joppa and see Peter b.c peter is going to tell them what They need to do. NEED TO DO WHAT?

If you go to verse 11 Peter is retelling the story to the circumsission oh how an angle came to him in a trance And that he saw a vision of a sheet let down from heaven and the lord told him to slay and eat and this happened three times and then the sheet was lifted back to heaven and then right after that three men were standing in front of Peter. And Peter went with them and the one told Peter how he had seen an angel which told him to Go to Peter so he can tell them and his house HOW TO BE SAVED

And what Happend in Acts 10:44-48. We know that they repented(Acts 11:18) They got the HOly Ghost and Spoke in tongues and then Peter COMMANDED THEM TO BE BAPTIZED IN THE NAME OF THE LORD.

RIGHT THERE IS ACTS 2:38 BEING FULLFILLED BY THE GENTILES.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> 15. And as I began * to speak * , the Holy Ghost fell * on them, as on us at the beginning.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

HOW DID IT FALL ON THEM IN THE BEGINNING? THEY SPOKE IN TONGUES. SO PETER JUST SAID THE SAME THING HAPPENED TO THEM THE SAME WAY IT HAPPENED TO US.

GOD BLESS

 

[Briguy]

Oneness, you ask for proof and good sound doctrine, then when i give it you ignore it. I don't believe stories that people tell about tongues and other weird events. Most are just stories. If the two girls spoke in tongues then Satan was at work or they were copying what they had heard. There is no need for the "gift of Tongues" unless a person of a different language is present, but of course I have shown the true gift ended in 70AD anyway. No matter how you study it Oneness you are confused. Please accept what I say in love because that is how it is intended. I am not a Baptist or a catholic btw, in fact I go to a non-denominational church.

In Christ and love,
Brian

 

[SPH]

MEE,

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Not sure about "scientifically" but it is Biblical! Acts 2:39) For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. If I'm not mistaken, HE is still calling.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But that doesn't really answer my question, does it.

How can we be certain that any particular person or group really is speaking in tongues?

 

[ONENESS]

I cant answer for MEE but for my self I dont really have an answer for you.

I guess its kind of like wanting to know if someone is A Christian just b/c they say they are.

Here is a pretty cool link if you would like to read it.

http://www.apostolic.net/tracts/tongues.htm

 

[Briguy]

Oneness, the first paragraph of that site has a story. Everyone always has a story. The little bit more I read was so biblically inaccurate I couldn't go on.

Oneness, please respond to my last 2 to 3 posts which you have ignored.
Thanks!!

In Christ,
Brian

 

[ONENESS]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Oneness, you ask for proof and good sound doctrine, then when i give it you ignore it. I don't believe stories that people tell about tongues and other weird events. Most are just stories. If the two girls spoke in tongues then Satan was at work or they were copying what they had heard. There is no need for the "gift of Tongues" unless a person of a different language is present, but of course I have shown the true gift ended in 70AD anyway. No matter how you study it Oneness you are confused. Please accept what I say in love because that is how it is intended. I am not a Baptist or a catholic btw, in fact I go to a non-denominational church. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So does God pick a year that he is going to end his gift? You never showed me that it "ended" in 70AD. You said you are giveing me sound doctrine. I guess we have a clash on doctrines.

The bible says in the book of acts the second chapter and the forty second verse tells us that the apostles continued in the "Apostles Doctrine" (Acts 2:38

I am sorry if that is not sound enough for you Brian, But what they said goes. They lived a life with The Father in FLesh, and pumped everything into them that they needed.

They told us in the book of Acts when they were comfronted and were asked the question "What Meaneth this?" And he Told them that THIS IS THAT WHICH WAS SPOKEN BY THE PROPHET JOEL. AND IT SHALL COME TO PASS IN THE LAST DAYS, SAITH GOD, I WILL POUR OUT MY SPIRIT UPON ALL FLESH, AND YOUR SONS AND YOUR DAUGHTERS SHALL PROPHESY, AND YOUR YOUNG MEN SHALL SEE VISIONS, AND YOU OLD MEN SHALL DREAM DREAMS AND ON MY SERVANTS AND ON MY HANDMAIDENS I WILL POUR OUT IN THOSE DAYS OF MY SPIRIT AND THEY SHALL PROPHESY

And he has not stopped pouring out since.

 

[ONENESS]

And about you not believing others testomonies, I cant help you there. Wish is could.

God bless.

 

[DHK]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ONENESS:

They told us in the book of Acts when they were comfronted and were asked the question "What Meaneth this?" And he Told them that THIS IS THAT WHICH WAS SPOKEN BY THE PROPHET JOEL. AND IT SHALL COME TO PASS IN THE LAST DAYS, SAITH GOD, I WILL POUR OUT MY SPIRIT UPON ALL FLESH, AND YOUR SONS AND YOUR DAUGHTERS SHALL PROPHESY, AND YOUR YOUNG MEN SHALL SEE VISIONS, AND YOU OLD MEN SHALL DREAM DREAMS AND ON MY SERVANTS AND ON MY HANDMAIDENS I WILL POUR OUT IN THOSE DAYS OF MY SPIRIT AND THEY SHALL PROPHESY
And he has not stopped pouring out since.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

How do you know he hasn't stopped. And why did you stop at verse 18.

19 And I will show wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:

Did these things also come to pass at that time, and are also still continuing up to this time. No. These are still future events, just as the events in verses 17 and 18 are now past events fulfilled on the day of Pentecost, as Peter said they were.
DHK

 

[Don]

First off, Oneness, a question: What language are you speaking in when YOU speak in tongues?

You've referenced the gift given to the apostles in Acts 2, so you know full well that every man there heard the apostles in their own tongue. So the proper and right use of the gift of tongues is speaking in a language of men.

Which language do you speak in when the gift of tongues is upon you?

Or you, MEE; which language does the Spirit lead you to speak in?

 

[Briguy]

DHK, Thank you for adding those verses. I was going to do the same thing and you beat me to it. Isn't it funny how so many people like oneness don't want to quote that whole section of verses.

Oneness, Take what I, DHK and Don say in love. We say what we say to protect you from horribly wrong doctrine that leads to poor Christian practices. On the 70AD thing. That is the year the Jews lost their land so the sign (gift of tongues) of that happening was not given out anymore because it was not needed. The people who had the gift kept it until they died but probably there was no tongues going on by 100AD.

In Christ,
Brian

 

[ONENESS]

No one understood what they were saying in Acts 10. The only thing the Jews knew that the Holy Ghost had fallen b/c they heard the gentiles speaking in tongues.

And what about in Acts 19, there was no interprator there.

I dont know what language I speak. Paul said that when you speak in an unknown tongue you speak mysteries unto the Spirit.

And for that goes I am not speaking of the Gift of TOngues. I am speaking of the Evidence that one has recieved the Gift of the HOly GHost.

There is a diffrence. One must have the Holy Ghost to posess the Gifts of the Holy Ghost.

So let me ask you this. Has anyone prophesyed where you guys are at. Has anyone spoken in tongues and had an interpration where you are at. The reason why I ask this is b/c THe gifts have not went away in 70ad like you say. Why would God just take a gift away. The bible says that signs would follow those that believe. I see many of the signs that Jesus said would follow in the UPC. But where are they with yours.

God bless, in love. And like wise I will pray for you also. God Bless you guys

 

[ONENESS]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Did these things also come to pass at that time, and are also still continuing up to this time. No. These are still future events, just as the events in verses 17 and 18 are now past events fulfilled on the day of Pentecost, as Peter said they were.
DHK

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry DHK but in the eighth chapter, and in the 10th, chapter and in the 19 chapter were all after the day of pentecost. So it was not just for that Day.

Acts 2:38-39. For the promise is unto you and unto your children, to all those that are afar off and unto as many as our lord god shall call.

He is still calling and it is still being poured out. Show me when he stopped pouring out his spirit. Can you do that?

 

[DHK]

1 Corinthians 14: Tongues and Prophesying.
This chapter is a discussion of the relative value of tongues and prophesying, which seem to have been the two gifts most sought after. In context prophesying was not predicting the future, but having the gift of teaching on a lofty plane, a special aid of the spirit given for the purpose of teaching. It was far more valuable than tongues because everybody understood it. Paul forbids the women to speak aloud in the meetings.
Note the restrictions that Paul gives against speaking in tongues, as well as the arguments put forward not to speak in tongues:

1. It is the least important gift listed in 12:28.
2. It ceased with the completion of the N.T. (13:8-13)
3. Don't speak in tongues because no man understands you (14:1-3)
4. Because it does not edify anyone (14:3,4)
5. Because 5 words of understanding are better than 10,000 words in an unknown tongue (14:19)
6. Because the gift of tongues was given as a sign to the unbelieving Jew. If therefore there is no unbelieving Jew present it is an unscriptural gift (14:21,22)
7. There should be no more than 2 or at the most 3 that should speak in tongues, and then always turn by turn
8. There must be an interpreter, if there is no interpreter he must be silent! (27,28)
9. The women must keep silence in the church. It is not permitted for them to speak. It is a shame for women to speak in the church. (34,35)

If you are not adhering to all these stipulations that Paul puts on speaking in tongues, then you don't have the gift. Quite frankly you have been deceived. What language are you speaking in, when you speak in tongues (yes a real known language)? If your a woman, then the gift is not, was not, for you. Even if you satisfied the above conditions, if there is no unbelieving Jew present, then it is unbiblical, for it is a sign to the unbelieving Jew. Whatever you have, it is not the Biblical gift of speaking in tongues.
DHK

 

[ONENESS]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> posted December 21, 2001 12:50 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Corinthians 14: Tongues and Prophesying.
This chapter is a discussion of the relative value of tongues and prophesying, which seem to have been the two gifts most sought after. In context prophesying was not predicting the future, but having the gift of teaching on a lofty plane, a special aid of the spirit given for the purpose of teaching. It was far more valuable than tongues because everybody understood it. Paul forbids the women to speak aloud in the meetings.
Note the restrictions that Paul gives against speaking in tongues, as well as the arguments put forward not to speak in tongues:
1. It is the least important gift listed in 12:28.
2. It ceased with the completion of the N.T. (13:8-13)
3. Don't speak in tongues because no man understands you (14:1-3)
4. Because it does not edify anyone (14:3,4)
5. Because 5 words of understanding are better than 10,000 words in an unknown tongue (14:19)
6. Because the gift of tongues was given as a sign to the unbelieving Jew. If therefore there is no unbelieving Jew present it is an unscriptural gift (14:21,22)
7. There should be no more than 2 or at the most 3 that should speak in tongues, and then always turn by turn
8. There must be an interpreter, if there is no interpreter he must be silent! (27,28)
9. The women must keep silence in the church. It is not permitted for them to speak. It is a shame for women to speak in the church. (34,35)

If you are not adhering to all these stipulations that Paul puts on speaking in tongues, then you don't have the gift. Quite frankly you have been deceived. What language are you speaking in, when you speak in tongues (yes a real known language)? If your a woman, then the gift is not, was not, for you. Even if you satisfied the above conditions, if there is no unbelieving Jew present, then it is unbiblical, for it is a sign to the unbelieving Jew. Whatever you have, it is not the Biblical gift of speaking in tongues.
DHK

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>2. It ceased with the completion of the N.T. (13:8-13)
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

IT CEASED WITH THE COMPLETION OF THE N.T.?

First of all if you are going to say that tounges ceased than you have got to say that knowledge has vanished away. Go ahead and state the rest of the verse if you are going to use it. Sure just a portion of scripture looks good stuck out on a bill board on a highway all by itself. But if you are going to use the verse, please quote the whole verse.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> with the completion of the N.T. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

uhhh when was it completed. Are we in a diffrent Testament? I guess we are in the Newer testament. LOL that dont make any since. That was a good one.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> 3. Don't speak in tongues because no man understands you (14:1-3)
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Uh yea, only GOd does. (whats wrong with praying in the Spirit?) Nothing....

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> 4. Because it does not edify anyone (14:3,4) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes it does, it edifyes ones self. There is nothing wrong with that. Paul wishes they all spake with tongues.


<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> 5. Because 5 words of understanding are better than 10,000 words in an unknown tongue (14:19)
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes that is true, in the midst of a congration there should be order. and it is better so that someone could uderstand. But go up one verse WHERE IT SAYS "I THANK MY GOD THAT I SPEAK IN TONGUES MORE THAN YE ALL. QUIT DANCEING AROUND THAT.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>6. Because the gift of tongues was given as a sign to the unbelieving Jew. If therefore there is no unbelieving Jew present it is an unscriptural gift (14:21,22)
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not just the unbelieving Jew but for the unbeliver. And there are unbelivers for the scriptural gift.


Look i try to pardon by not telling you are wrong or by railing what you believe.

THE SIGNS ARE FOLLOWING THOSE THAT STILL BELIEVE. THEY ARE SILENT IN THE RCC, EPISCALPAION (SP?) THE PRESBETERIANS, BAPTIST AND ALMOST ALL OTHERS. WHO CARES IF SOMEONE THOUGHT THEY SAW MARY IN THE A TREE IN ENGLAND OR IN THERE HARD WOOD COUNTER AT HOME. THAT IS NOT A SIGN THAT FOLLOWS THOSE THAT BELIVE. GOD BLESS

 

[Amazing_Grace]

Oneness, please explain this to me.

What is the purpose of speaking in tongue?

Why would God choose to pass on messages that cannot be understood by most? When God speaks to me, it is very clear, and I think that is common for most people. Tongues can be interpreted many different ways, depending on the person interpreting. I simply can't understand the point of it all.

I don't believe that God would pass on messages this way. He is never confusing, He is always clear.

The Bible speaks of speaking in tongues to pass on a message, as far as I know it was never necessary to prove you have been saved or that the Holy Spirit dwells within you. You don't have to speak in tongue for that.

So please, explain to me what you believe the purpose is behind speaking in tongue. I can't fathom there being a purpose. I don't buy that it is a sign that the Holy Spirit is in you, because there are many other more trustworthy signs than that. I also don't buy that He is passing messages along this way, because I believe He speaks to everyone in different and more clear ways.

Show me a different and Biblically sound purpose of this practice, and how it is not simply a way of self-edification.

In Christ

 

[Eladar]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> I don't believe that God would pass on messages this way. He is never confusing, He is always clear.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Is this why Jesus spoke in parables?

 

[ONENESS]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Oneness, please explain this to me.
What is the purpose of speaking in tongue?

Why would God choose to pass on messages that cannot be understood by most? When God speaks to me, it is very clear, and I think that is common for most people. Tongues can be interpreted many different ways, depending on the person interpreting. I simply can't understand the point of it all.

I don't believe that God would pass on messages this way. He is never confusing, He is always clear.

The Bible speaks of speaking in tongues to pass on a message, as far as I know it was never necessary to prove you have been saved or that the Holy Spirit dwells within you. You don't have to speak in tongue for that.

So please, explain to me what you believe the purpose is behind speaking in tongue. I can't fathom there being a purpose. I don't buy that it is a sign that the Holy Spirit is in you, because there are many other more trustworthy signs than that. I also don't buy that He is passing messages along this way, because I believe He speaks to everyone in different and more clear ways.

Show me a different and Biblically sound purpose of this practice, and how it is not simply a way of self-edification.

In Christ
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Probably the most honest question asked so far. Thanks for your question.

I know there is alot that is not understood by most. Does it seem confuseing, Yes it does. But let me adress it like this

When you wake up in the morning and someone comes in and flips on the light, your first responce to that light is blinding and you cant see much around you. But as your eyes become accustomed to the light you can see more clearly what is around you.

The bible is the same way. At first when we look at things we dont understand and it seems blinding to us. But as we begin to study it and search the scriptures and rightly devide the word of God Our Spiritual eyes become accustomed to it.

I am in a hurry right now and may not be able to get back with you until next wensday, I dont have access to a cp at home but i will try to get back with you before then.

God bless

 

[Briguy]

Oh poor Oneness, You are in my prayers!!!