Speaking in tongues?

[Tom Butler]

I wonder why God did not give the gift of tongues to John the Baptist, Martin Luther, C. H. Spurgeon, Billy Graham, John Gill, Jonathan Edwards, Roger Williams and a whole host of people through the ages? Why did he not give it to any of my pastors? Why did he not give it to me or (as far as I know) any of the people in my church?

I wonder why Paul spent more time warning against its misuse than promoting its use.

I wonder why I have heard countless charismatic preachers speak in tongues on "Christian" TV--and not once has anyone stood up to interpret what they said.

I wonder why God has allowed them to have the gift of speaking in tongues, but a
allowed them to remain in doctrinal error.

 

[bodyofchrist32]

I wonder why God did not give the gift of tongues to John the Baptist, Martin Luther, C. H. Spurgeon, Billy Graham, John Gill, Jonathan Edwards, Roger Williams and a whole host of people through the ages? Why did he not give it to any of my pastors? Why did he not give it to me or (as far as I know) any of the people in my church?

I wonder why Paul spent more time warning against its misuse than promoting its use.

I wonder why I have heard countless charismatic preachers speak in tongues on "Christian" TV--and not once has anyone stood up to interpret what they said.

I wonder why God has allowed them to have the gift of speaking in tongues, but a
allowed them to remain in doctrinal error.[/QUOJohn the Baptists ministry was before believers were indwelt with th gift of the Spirit, so we cannot put him in the same class as Martin Luther, Billy Graham, or the others. It is true that we don't have any record of any of these men recieving the gift of tongues, but that in itself does not mean it no longer exists. Maybe your pastors and fellow church members never had it because there was never a need for it in your church, as there has never been a need for it in mine. Paul spent more time focusing on it's misuse because its misuse was a big problem within the Corinthian church. The Corinthians viewed the gift of tongues so highly that it had become a source of pride for them, and had become detrimental to the furtherance of the gospel. There is also no doubt that you have heard charismatics supposedly speaking in tongues without an interpreter. I personally don't believe that what we hear from these charismatics is the Biblical gift of tongues, since it is not a known language used to communicate with a person who does not speak our language. But, let's just say for a moment, for the sake of proving a point, that what these charismatics do is the Biblical gift of tongues. Misuse by not having one to interpret would not make the gift invalid. If that were the case, there would have been no need for Paul to address the need of an interpreter. The Corinthians had a true gift given to them from the Holy Spirit. They misused that gift, but they had it nonetheless, and it was still from the Holy Spirit. So, while all of the points you made may very well be true, none of them show that the gift of tongues doesn't exist.

 

[tinytim]

Here is my experience with tongues. .(the right kind of tongues)

In our area, our state convention is gearing up for hispanic ministries in which our churches will be in control over.

A lot of strange things has gone on in my life since October.
Here are a few instances:

1) our convention hired an hispanic stategist from Nicuragua in Sept. When he was introduced at our annual meeting in Oct., he was introduced in Spanish.. I COULD UNDERSTAND EVERYTHING ABOUT HIM... and I only had a remedial spanish class in HS over 20 yrs ago... I only know a few words now... Was it God giving me the understanding?... had to be!

2) We were at our local Pizza Hut and some of the local hispanics were in there trying to order... Well, the manager didn't know Spanish so they were having trouble placing their order... I was paying for my stuff. and they were trying to order... the one thing they couldn't get the manager to understand was "Garlic Butter" But somehow, I knew what they wanted and was able to help.

3) Last night I started Spanish classes.. and as it turns out, it seems that I am picking up on it VERY easy..

Now I knwo I don't have it in myself.. so GOD has to be helping me.

This I feel is the true gift of tongues. I have caught myself listening to Spanish, and understanding... I never could do this before.

 

[tinytim]

Oh, another thing, back in December a woman that goes to our church had to have surgery.. she is dating a guy from Honduras.. .I spent about 6 -8 hours with him in a waiting room and we got along great.. He knew very little English.. adn I know very little Spanish... but because God was there, understanding was there also.

 

[puros_bran]

I've always believed speaking in divers tongues ment speaking another human language, BUT that 1 cor passage does confuse me a bit.

If the gift of tongues is a way for the Spirit to spread the gospel to a person that would otherwise not understand it, how could someone interpret it? Sure the person being spoken to can/could, but how would we know they could? They don't speak our language. Wouldn't they need 'reverse tongues' to be able to tell us in English that what was said was Bulgarian for 'except a man be born again he can not enter the Kingdom of Heaven? (Or whatever was said in Bulgarian)

 

[bodyofchrist32]

I've always believed speaking in divers tongues ment speaking another human language, BUT that 1 cor passage does confuse me a bit.

If the gift of tongues is a way for the Spirit to spread the gospel to a person that would otherwise not understand it, how could someone interpret it? Sure the person being spoken to can/could, but how would we know they could? They don't speak our language. Wouldn't they need 'reverse tongues' to be able to tell us in English that what was said was Bulgarian for 'except a man be born again he can not enter the Kingdom of Heaven? (Or whatever was said in Bulgarian)

I'll admit I don't have all the answers when it comes to tongues. There are parts of the 1 Corinthians passage that confuse me as well. For instance, Paul said he spoke in the tongues of men and of angels. What are the tongues of angels he spoke of?

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Is speaking in tounges and excuse to get an emotion euphoric feeling? Is it a method to cause hyperventalation? Seems that way to me.

 

[Zenas]

I believe tongues is a gift of the Spirit, and I'm referring to the tongues described in 1 Corinthians. It is an excited utterance that has no connection to any human language. I believe it is a gift of the Spirit because Paul said so, but he didn't say how it is useful. I can't figure out how it is useful either, except those who participate get a real spiritual "high" from it. I have never seen this phenomenon outside the context of prayer or worship. I once threw out the question in Sunday School, "Why are Pentecostals the only people who ever seem to have the gift of tongues?" One person gave a really sensible answer. Because we don't ask for this gift. "Ask and it shall be given you; seek and ye shall find; knock and it shall be opened unto you." Makes a lot of sense.

 

[Jerome]

"Why are Pentecostals the only people who ever seem to have the gift of tongues?"

Seem is the key word here.
Voodoo and spiritism counterfeit it too.

 

[John Toppass]

I, myself do not see the need to speak in tongues. Paul, in 1 Corinthians 12-14, was explaining the kind of order that these (tongues and prophesy) gifts should be used. It seems the searching and yearning for these gifts had actually started to replaced worship and edification of God and His church. There was much confusion and probably one-ups-man-ship going on with those seeking these visual and verbal gifts.

Paul went on to say that tongues were used for signs to help the unbeliever and uninformed to become a believer or to become informed. Love, faith and hope are what we (believers) are to abide in, with love being the greatest.

I do believe that all gifts are available to the believers in need of them. Tongues, for the most part, are not needed to convey the message to the unbeliever, but I do think that if that is what is necessary then the gift of tongues would be available; in the order that Paul has described.

The use of all gifts, will always edify the Church and confusion will not be present due to the usage of the gifts. Above all the use of Love, faith and hope is a better way to edify and worship our God and spread His word to unbelievers.

These are my thoughts and understandings. I am always open to constructive critique or confirmation by the thoughts of other believers.

 

[DHK]

I'll admit I don't have all the answers when it comes to tongues. There are parts of the 1 Corinthians passage that confuse me as well. For instance, Paul said he spoke in the tongues of men and of angels. What are the tongues of angels he spoke of?

Paul never said that.

1 Corinthians 13:1-3 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

It does not say that:
1. Paul spoke with the tongues of men and of angels, nor,
2. that Paul had the gift of prophecy and could understand all mysteries, nor,
3. that Paul had all knowledge, nor,
4, that Paul had all faith so that he could remove fountains, nor,
5. that he bestowed all his goods to feed the poor, nor,
6. that he gave his body to be burned.

It does not say that he did any of those things.
Each one of those statements are conjectural statements or suppositional. They make a proposition, not a statement of fact. They start with the word "though" or "if". That is a condition. The condition is never carried out. It is like saying "suppose." Suppose I had a million dollars, then...." But the reality is I don't have a million dollars, and the reality is that Paul never spoke in the languages of angels, be that what it may. Even if he could; even if it were a remote possibility, without love it would be like sounding brass or a tinkling cymbal--cacaphony--noise hard on the ears.

 

[John Toppass]

I believe tongues is a gift of the Spirit, and I'm referring to the tongues described in 1 Corinthians. It is an excited utterance that has no connection to any human language. I believe it is a gift of the Spirit because Paul said so, but he didn't say how it is useful. I can't figure out how it is useful either, except those who participate get a real spiritual "high" from it.

1 Cor 14:22 (NKJV)
Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophesying is not for unbelievers but for those who believe.

I have never seen this phenomenon outside the context of prayer or worship. I once threw out the question in Sunday School, "Why are Pentecostals the only people who ever seem to have the gift of tongues?" One person gave a really sensible answer. Because we don't ask for this gift. "Ask and it shall be given you; seek and ye shall find; knock and it shall be opened unto you." Makes a lot of sense.

Through the years (especially in my younger years) visited several Pentecostal services and each case when tongues were spoken there were several (men and women) doing this at the same time. This was confusing and seemed to be a show of who could out speak the other. I may have been wrong but that is what I and others felt of the service.

 

[Marcia]

What scripture backs up that speaking in toungues has ceased??

I don't think that there is a specific scripture that says speaking in tongues has ceased, because when the scriptures were being written, speaking in tongues was happening.

We can assess it other ways.

 

[Marcia]

No, I don't speak in tongues, and have never seen it. I have been to a pentecostal church, and seen some there "speaking in tongues", but, while it may have been real to them, I don't believe it was from te Spirit. The example we have from the day of Pentecost was of people speaking languages that were not known to them, but were known to those they were speaking to, and that was not what I witnessed. What I witnessed was confusion, and therefore could not have been from God. However, I do believe that the Holy Spirit may still give the gift today. I understand that the gift was for a sign, and I believe that if given then it is still for that purpose. I heard of an instance of a missionary wanting to witness to a tribe of people she came across, but she didn't know their language. She cried out to God to be able to share the gospel with them, and the next day when she woke up, she miraculously spoke that language, and was able to witness. I wasn't there, so I cannot verify this account, but neither do I dare deny it, for I believe it to be entirely possible. I can find no scriptural justification for believing it ceased with the closing of the canon of scripture. Most people say that "when that which is perfect is come" refers to the canon of scripture, but I believe it refers to the perfect kingdom of God. The fact that I have never personally seen the gift of tongues means nothing. The gift was never widespread. There were few who witnessed it on the day of Pentecost, and few who witnessed it from the Corinthians, but it existed nevertheless.

I mentioned in an earlier post that I do believe there can be instances when God allows someone to share the gospel in a language they do not know. This is usually a one-time occurrence. This is NOT the gift of tongues, which was an ongoing gift given to certain people.

 

[bodyofchrist32]

1 Cor 14:22 (NKJV)
Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophesying is not for unbelievers but for those who believe.




Through the years (especially in my younger years) visited several Pentecostal services and each case when tongues were spoken there were several (men and women) doing this at the same time. This was confusing and seemed to be a show of who could out speak the other. I may have been wrong but that is what I and others felt of the service.

And you very may well be right. It may have been a situation where one was trying to outdo the other. But, the fact that some people misuse it or some people counterfeit it does not mean the gift has ceased. I believe that if the need were to arise for the gift of tongues, hen the Holy Spirit still gives it. I have had this discussion with several other baptists, and they have all believed that the gift has ceased, but none of them have been able to reasonably prove it to me from scripture.

 

[Marcia]

I'll admit I don't have all the answers when it comes to tongues. There are parts of the 1 Corinthians passage that confuse me as well. For instance, Paul said he spoke in the tongues of men and of angels. What are the tongues of angels he spoke of?

This statement of Paul's was "if I speak with the tongues of men and of angels but do not have love...." This is poetic hyperbole. It is not a statement of fact; it's also hypothetical.

I don't think men can speak with the tongues of angels because we are not angels. Not only that, there is no biblical evidence for men speaking the "tongues of angels."

 

[John Toppass]

And you very may well be right. It may have been a situation where one was trying to outdo the other. But, the fact that some people misuse it or some people counterfeit it does not mean the gift has ceased. I believe that if the need were to arise for the gift of tongues, hen the Holy Spirit still gives it. I have had this discussion with several other baptists, and they have all believed that the gift has ceased, but none of them have been able to reasonably prove it to me from scripture.

That is what I posted in post 30.

 

[John Toppass]

I mentioned in an earlier post that I do believe there can be instances when God allows someone to share the gospel in a language they do not know. This is usually a one-time occurrence. This is NOT the gift of tongues, which was an ongoing gift given to certain people.

?? Why would this NOT be a gift of tongues?? Where does scripture say it must be ongoing?

 

[Marcia]

?? Why would this NOT be a gift of tongues?? Where does scripture say it must be ongoing?

Because a gift given through the Holy Spirit is depicted in the NT as something someone has and does not lose. It's not just something that happens once.

Every believer has at least one gift given by God through the Holy Spirit. Do you think these gifts are taken away? Nowhere does it say a gift is taken away from a believer. It talks about how you should serve God and the body of Christ with your gifts.

I think the burden is on you to show these gifts are given to a believer and then taken away, if that's what you think.

 

[Trotter]

I live in the same city as the CoG world headquarters, as well as the COGIC. I have seen all kinds of "tongues" through the years. I have also been told that if I don't speak in tongues I am lost and on my way to hell.

The biblical use of "tongues" is nothing like what is called "tongues" today. A person would have to be blind, deaf, and dumb to think that they are the one and the same. Outside of the Corinthian churches exaltaion of tongues (sounds familiar...), it only is mentioned in the circumstances detailed above.

Funny how this topic floats through every so often...