Specific threats to Christians about losing eternal life!

[evangelist-7]

you have the free will to choose

Free will has always reigned supreme ... all throughout the Scriptures.

Free will to obey God's commandments, or not to.
Free will to repent, or not to.
Free will to co-operate with the Holy Spirit in your sanctification process, or not to.
And even free will to choose which one of Biblicist's eternal lives you want.
.

 

[evangelist-7]

5 additions to the OP list ... Warnings to Christians about losing eternal life ...

Matt 6:15 • Forgive men’s sins against you, or God will not forgive your sins against Him.
Matt 13:3-8,18-23 • 2 examples of coming to life, and then returning to the lost state.
Matt 18:21-35 • Not forgiving others causes God to revoke His forgiving us.
Rom 11:20-22 • By faith, continue in God’s goodness & fear, otherwise you will be cut off.
Gal 5:1-4 • It is possible for a Christian to be estranged from Christ and fall from grace.
.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

I am so glad that after I trusted Jesus Christ as the atonement sacrifice for my sins, I was sealed with the Holy Spirit UNTIL the day of redemption of the purchased possession.

I cannot break that seal, for I am promised by the Word of God that it is there until that day specified. God Himself cannot break that seal before that day either. My salvation is sure and secure.

 

[BobRyan]

Thank you for that quote and your feelings in that regard.

Here is a quote showing Paul's feelings on this question.

====================================

"Forgiveness revoked" model as Matt 18

Matt 18
32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?
34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.




It works on the same model as Romans 11


===============================================
Romans 11


18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.

1 Cor 9

23 Now this I do for the gospel’s sake, that I may be partaker of it with you.
24 Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it. 25 And everyone who competes for the prize is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a perishable crown, but we for an imperishable crown. 26 Therefore I run thus: not with uncertainty. Thus I fight: not as one who beats the air. 27 But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached (the Gospel) to others, I myself should become disqualified (from it).
==

 

[Steadfast Fred]

Sorry to disappoint you, but 1 Corinthians 9:27 is not speaking of Salvation. Rather, it is speaking of Service.

As to Matthew 18, again it is not speaking of a saved person losing his Salvation. Jesus was speaking to Peter, who at that time had not yet been converted. Peter's sins had not been forgiven yet, as the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ had not been shed for him yet.

Romans 11? Again, not speaking of one losing one's Salvation. Notice that Paul said God would "graft them back in again who abode not still in unbelief. God doesn't take away Salvation and give it back, Bob.

Those who are saved are His sheep. And as His sheep, He cares for them. He will go look for the straying sheep and bring it back to the fold. Why? Because it is His sheep. Though it may have strayed, it never ceased being His.

Your proof texts for loss of Salvation once given are proven to not to state, or even imply, what you want them to say.

 

[Alive in Christ]

It is impossible for a redeemed christian to lose salvation.

The sciptures are clear that we are...

..sealed for the day of redemption.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

It is impossible for a redeemed christian to lose salvation.

The sciptures are clear that we are...

if we were able to break that seal, we would prove God to be a liar... Which is impossible.

 

[Thomas Helwys]

Saying that man loses his freedom to choose after being saved makes God a liar, and since that is impossible, so OSAS is false.

 

[webdog]

Saying that man loses his freedom to choose after being saved makes God a liar, and since that is impossible, so OSAS is false.

So, if I have the freedom to murder someone, I have the same freedom to un-murder that person?

 

[Thomas Helwys]

So, if I have the freedom to murder someone, I have the same freedom to un-murder that person?

Quite ridiculous, and you know it.

You have the freedom not to murder the person.

You have the freedom not to believe, before you come to Jesus and after you come to Him.

It's amazing to me that people think you can choose before salvation but not after. So, what does God do, somehow take a spiritual knife and cut out that ability to choose, leaving only coercion? If one can only be loyal because he/she has no other choice, that is not true loyalty.

 

[The Biblicist]

Sorry this is a repeat of the following

 

[The Biblicist]

What you do not understand is that the new birth changes the person from what they were before. After new birth the inclination of the will is freed from the dominance of indwelling sin and is now dominated by another "law" or love for God's Law. However, that new indwelling law is powerless apart from submission to the indwelling Spirit of Christ so that it is "God that worketh in you both to WILL and to DO of His good pleasure" - Philip. 2:13

Your theory operates according to a pre-new birth condition. Sorry, but that condition no longer exists. Sin no longer totally dominates the will. That condition has been changed so that the inward man now "delights in the law of God." The difference between the lost and saved is not sin, but the dominance of sin. The reason a Christian sins is aptly stated by Paul in these words:

Rom. 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

This is the internal struggle between two "laws" that now operated within a reborn person. The law of indwelling sin NEVER changes the new law that characterizes the inward new man or reborn man but it always overpowers it when the believer is not consciously submitting to the power of the indwelling Spirit of God.

So the true born again Christian always sins more than they want to. Indeed, the born again person is always sinning whenever they are not consciously submitting to the indwelling Holy Spirit.

Another thing that needs to be understood is that salvation is not merely a one dimensional thing. Salvation is for the WHOLE person and each person is multidimensional in nature (spirit, soul and body). Your position confuses the different aspects of salvation for different aspects of human nature. There is a PAST completed tense aspect of salvation that deals with the immaterial nature of a person (spirit - "what is born of Spirit is spirit"). There is a future tense aspect of salvation that deals with the material nature of a person (glorification of the material body). However, what your theory really confuses is the PRESENT tense aspect that deals with the soul/life of a person. Here is the real issue that divides us. There is redemption of "TIME" (Eph. 5:16) that includes the present function of the soul in relationship to time or what is manifested in our DAILY LIFE.

If you are interested in what I mean by this please read the short booklet at the following website:

http://www.victorybaptistchurchchehalis.com/uploads/What_is_Man.pdf

 

[Steadfast Fred]

Quite ridiculous, and you know it.

You have the freedom not to murder the person.

You have the freedom not to believe, before you come to Jesus and after you come to Him.

It's amazing to me that people think you can choose before salvation but not after. So, what does God do, somehow take a spiritual knife and cut out that ability to choose, leaving only coercion? If one can only be loyal because he/she has no other choice, that is not true loyalty.

How can a saved person choose not to believe when the Holy Spirit is residing inside him and guiding him into all truth? If a person were able to stop believing, again it would prove God to be a liar, for He said the Comforter would guide us into all truth.

 

[Thomas Helwys]

How can a saved person choose not to believe when the Holy Spirit is residing inside him and guiding him into all truth? If a person were able to stop believing, again it would prove God to be a liar, for He said the Comforter would guide us into all truth.

How was Adam able to choose to disobey when he had an undamaged will? How was Lucifer able to rebel in heaven? Because God gave them the freedom to choose; love, trust, allegiance, and obedience can only truly be called by those words if such are freely chosen, not coerced.

If a person stops believing, it proves that God is a loving God and not a puppet-master.

 

[Gregory Perry Sr.]

Amen Bro.Biblicist!!!!

What you do not understand is that the new birth changes the person from what they were before. After new birth the inclination of the will is freed from the dominance of indwelling sin and is now dominated by another "law" or love for God's Law. However, that new indwelling law is powerless apart from submission to the indwelling Spirit of Christ so that it is "God that worketh in you both to WILL and to DO of His good pleasure" - Philip. 2:13

Your theory operates according to a pre-new birth condition. Sorry, but that condition no longer exists. Sin no longer totally dominates the will. That condition has been changed so that the inward man now "delights in the law of God." The difference between the lost and saved is not sin, but the dominance of sin. The reason a Christian sins is aptly stated by Paul in these words:

Rom. 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

This is the internal struggle between two "laws" that now operated within a reborn person. The law of indwelling sin NEVER changes the new law that characterizes the inward new man or reborn man but it always overpowers it when the believer is not consciously submitting to the power of the indwelling Spirit of God.

So the true born again Christian always sins more than they want to. Indeed, the born again person is always sinning whenever they are not consciously submitting to the indwelling Holy Spirit.

Another thing that needs to be understood is that salvation is not merely a one dimensional thing. Salvation is for the WHOLE person and each person is multidimensional in nature (spirit, soul and body). Your position confuses the different aspects of salvation for different aspects of human nature. There is a PAST completed tense aspect of salvation that deals with the immaterial nature of a person (spirit - "what is born of Spirit is spirit"). There is a future tense aspect of salvation that deals with the material nature of a person (glorification of the material body). However, what your theory really confuses is the PRESENT tense aspect that deals with the soul/life of a person. Here is the real issue that divides us. There is redemption of "TIME" (Eph. 5:16) that includes the present function of the soul in relationship to time or what is manifested in our DAILY LIFE.

If you are interested in what I mean by this please read the short booklet at the following website:

http://www.victorybaptistchurchchehalis.com/uploads/What_is_Man.pdf

I'm doing a complete QUOTE of this post because EVERYBODY needs to read and re-read it until they GET IT!! The one thing that none of our SDA, Charismaniac friends seem to get is that the New Birth is a miraculous event that changes everything. Salvation is totally OF THE LORD. The posters that have been attacking the doctrine of the security of the believer simply have NO real understanding of the doctrines of regeneration, justification, salvation and the new birth or the nature of God Himself. The fact is, things DO CHANGE within the believer at salvation. Man's old adamic nature is NOT eradicated or "dead". It is very much alive after one is saved and THEN the real war begins and will continue until we see Christ. The miracle of the New Birth is that God imparts to us a new nature made after His likeness but it comes to us in baby-form and He likens us to spiritual babes that must grow into full spiritual maturity. For some that growth process is fairly rapid. For some it is painfully slow. For ALL it takes place at differing speeds and under differing conditions.....but God Himself said He would NEVER leave us nor forsake us. If you could do ANYTHING to either save yourself OR keep yourself saved then the "salvation" YOU have is of YOU....and NOT "of the Lord". If there doesn't exist within you a "defacto" state of war between your "old man" and your "new man" then my advice is....CHECK UP.raying:

In any case...Thank You Bro.Biblicist for an excellent post. After reading EVERY post in this thread it was a blessing to get past all of the false doctrine and back and forth hurling of insults to finally get to and read a sound exposition of the truth. I hope everybody will sincerely pause, read, and consider your sound words. I'll save your posted link to my fav's list for future reference. Thank You!

Bro.Greg:saint:

 

[Yeshua1]

Saying that man loses his freedom to choose after being saved makes God a liar, and since that is impossible, so OSAS is false.

when god saved us , he changed us, so our new natures will NOT want to disobey Him, but that old nature keeps trying to rear its ungly head!

kept saved by the power of God, in the trinity, as Father sent the Son, Son died to purchase us back, he is our High priest, HS sealed us, so God makes sure salvation "sticks!"

NO true Christian ever would decide to "lose it"

 

[Yeshua1]

And there ladies and gentlemen is that claim to "Two Gospels" we keep reading about in Gal 1:6-11. Paul claims there is no such thing - and yet we still have people today claim 1 gospel for 4000 years and then another one for 2000 years.

But oddly enough - that post above is in response to Romans 11, Matt 18, Gal 5:4 -- you know - the "Fallen from Grace" texts of the New Testament.

Oh well.

in Christ,

Bob

One gospel message, but 2 seperate and different administerings of it!

NOT under Old Covenant, but NT New Covenant Grace now!

 

[Yeshua1]

Thank you for stating your personal opinion.

Walter Martin stated his - and put it in a book - confirming that the doctrines of the SDA church are indeed main stream Christianity and are included as in-house discussion within the body of Christ.

But I have repeatedly affirmed the free will system described in the Bible provided by God - and you have the free will to choose that personal opinion.

in Christ,

Bob

Biblical cult check list!

extra biblical source/founder Ellen White
True re,nant church real NT church Yep
Holds to Law/good works saving yep
Different gospel Yep

Sorry, but brother martin was wrong, and DR Paul was right!

 

[Yeshua1]

How was Adam able to choose to disobey when he had an undamaged will? How was Lucifer able to rebel in heaven? Because God gave them the freedom to choose; love, trust, allegiance, and obedience can only truly be called by those words if such are freely chosen, not coerced.

If a person stops believing, it proves that God is a loving God and not a puppet-master.

Adam was pre fall state, NONE after him like that except jesus!

And we have NEW natures, that CANNOT chose to not want God any more!

 

[evangelist-7]

I am so glad that after I trusted Jesus Christ as the atonement sacrifice for my sins, I was sealed with the Holy Spirit UNTIL the day of redemption of the purchased possession.

I cannot break that seal, for I am promised by the Word of God that it is there until that day specified. God Himself cannot break that seal before that day either. My salvation is sure and secure.

Steady Freddie ... many hearty congratulations!
But some of us feel sorry for you.
.