Spin off the Magi and Bethlehem Star Threads . . .

[Aaron]

Question for asterisktom and Biblicyst:

Mat 5:45 . . . for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good. . . .
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Does the sun go round the earth, or is it the earth going round the sun and spinning on its axis? If it's the latter, did Christ know better?

If Christ knew better, then why not just say, he bringeth the evil and the good into the light of the sun? It's what we all think is really happening anyway. Why not say it that way instead of fostering ignorance and superstition?

 

[TCassidy]

Does the fact we still use language like "sun rise" and "sun set" mean we are all ignorant of our heliocentric solar system and that our planets rotates on its axis?

Of course not. We use language of appearance every day.

 

[asterisktom]

I am not sure why you are even asking me this question. Do you think I deny figurative language in the Bible or what?

 

[Aaron]

I'm asking you because you and Biblicyst like to parse words. So your hermeneutic that tells you this is figurative language is what? And why be figurative here?

 

[asterisktom]

"Parse words"? Examine words closely? Well, yes, this is a biblical discussion board. Sometimes that is exactly what we do here.

If you will quit being vague I can give you a direct answer. What exactly do you mean in the context of this thread? I honestly don't have enough to go on.

I'm asking you because you and Biblicyst like to parse words. So your hermeneutic that tells you this is figurative language is what? And why be figurative here?

 

[Aaron]

I'm not being vague. The question is, Does the earth go round the sun, or is it the sun going round the earth?

And if Christ's words about God making His sun to rise are figurative, as you said, what is the hermeneutic used that suggests that they are figurative?

 

[Aaron]

Yeah. Thought so. Bible interprets the Bible, or so you say until science does.

 

[asterisktom]

Yeah. Thought so. Bible interprets the Bible, or so you say until science does.

You thought nothing. You come across as pretty arrogant. My not answering until now is because of Internet problems here in China. Things are pretty controlled here right now, I suppose, because of perceived threats at this time.

I had intended to go into greater detail on the topic you raised - but I don't intend to waste my limited bandwidth with you. Not interested in arguments.

 

[InTheLight]

You thought nothing. You come across as pretty arrogant. My not answering until now is because of Internet problems here in China. Things are pretty controlled here right now, I suppose, because of perceived threats at this time.

I had intended to go into greater detail on the topic you raised - but I don't intend to waste my limited bandwidth with you. Not interested in arguments.

Last summer (spring?) Aaron went off on a tangent about how scientists can't prove the earth revolves around the sun. It's open to interpretation. Started several threads on the subject. If you're interested, and please don't be, you can search the board for "heliocentricity".

 

[Aaron]

Last summer (spring?) Aaron went off on a tangent about how scientists can't prove the earth revolves around the sun. It's open to interpretation. Started several threads on the subject. If you're interested, and please don't be, you can search the board for "heliocentricity".

Lol. Actually that's what the physicists say.

Many attempts were made to prove that heliocentricity was true and geocentricity was false, right up until the early 1900's. All such attempts were unsuccessful.

http://www.icr.org/article/geocentricity-creation/

But just answer the question.

Betchya won't.

 

[annsni]

I don't quite understand the point of this but it's clear the US Government also believes that the earth revolves around the sun but uses the term "sunrise" and "sunset" in it's official capacity:

http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/RS_OneDay.php

https://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/grad/solcalc/sunrise.html

https://www.nps.gov/grca/planyourvisit/sunrise_set_moon.htm

https://www.fcc.gov/media/radio/local-sunrise-sunset-calculations

 

[Alcott]

I guess I committed an evil act the last time I got a haircut, because I told somebody that I "got my ears lowered."

 

[Aaron]

Because, relative to us, the earth is not in motion. And, much to my surprise earlier this year, I discovered that physicists say that the motion of the earth has never been scientifically proven, which is one reason the theory of Special Relativity was invented.

Relativity is the cosmology of the day, which says that any point in space can be assumed to be the center and motionless, and all observed phenomena explained (Yes, even all the presumed objections about the speed of light and gravity and the velocity of the distant stars etc., etc.). The effect of this theory is that the heliocentric and geocentric models are now equally valid scientific models. Neither is more 'true' than the other.

(Again, I'M not saying that. It's physicists saying that. Go to the link.)

Now, this is important, because Christ spoke of the sun rising. In fact all the Spirit's descriptions of the heavens are in undeniably geocentric terms.

So, is He establishing the more 'true' model? And how do you know?

 

[Aaron]

So, is He establishing the more 'true' model? And how do you know?

I suspect the answer is going to be, "No, because science tells us . . . "

 

[annsni]

So, is He establishing the more 'true' model? And how do you know?

He is speaking to what people have always spoke of. What do you suggest Jesus have used instead of sun rising? It was and still is the official term of the time that the earth turns to reveal the sun at any given point on earth.

 

[Aaron]

He is speaking to what people have always spoke of.

Actually, He is saying a little more. He is making His Father the active agent. Most people would say the sun is rising. Even in the Psalms, it speaks of the sun's circuit, not Jehovah's circuit for the sun.

So Christ is saying a bit more. He is telling His disciples to emulate the behavior of their Father in Heaven. For He maketh His sun to rise on the evil and on the good. In other words, do what you see your Father doing.

So what do we see him doing? Do we see Him moving the sun, or the earth? (Yes, I know the point is that we don't discriminate between believers and nonbelievers in our day to day benevolence.) But would He state things as they actually are, or as they merely appear?

And if He is simply adopting the conventions of the day in describing natural events (and the only way we could say this is what He is doing is by adopting the prevailing scientific doctrines) How do you know he wasn't doing the same thing when He spoke of Creation, and Adam and Eve? And the Devil?

 

[Aaron]

Humming the Final Jeopardy theme . . .

 

[Alcott]

Humming the Final Jeopardy theme . . .

Oh, is it the final jeopardy? Of any kind? For anybody? Anywhere?
If those are the words, that's what it must mean. Yeah?......