Spiritual death has been "passed" from Adam

[The Biblicist]

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: - Rom. 5:12

And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; - Eph. 2:1

The Ephesians "were dead" and then were "quickened" neither of which pertains to their physical body or physical death.

1. To argue they were only metaphorically "dead" means they were only metaphorically "quickened" and thus only metaphorically "saved" as this quickening is described as being "saved" in verse 5.

2. Paul does not say they "were dying" but "dead". Hence, "dead" cannot refer to the process of physical death but rather to the cause for that process (spiritual death) or being "alienanted from the life of God" (Eph. 4:18), separated from God and thus a spiritual condition "without God" (Eph. 2:13).

3. Jesus demands what is born again is not the body but the "spirit" - Jn. 3:6 - Hence, it is the "spirit" that is "dead" because it is the "spirit" that is "quickened." "Spiritual death" is the appropriate expression because it is the "spirit" which is dead and quickened thus spiritual death and spiritual life. If there is no spiritual death there can be no spiritual life. Moreover, spiritual death and life cannot refer to cessation of existence but separation of our spirit from God (death) versus union of our Spirit with God (life) as God is the source of life, light, love and holiness and thus to be spiritually separated is to be spiritually dead, darkened, in enmity and depraved. Thus "death" and "life" with regard to our spirit refers to our moral condition of spirit rather than to the existence or non-existence of our spirit.

4. Hence, spiritual death precedes physical death in human beings

5. Death is "passed upon all men" and therefore spiritual death cannot possibly originate with post-Adamic mankind but must originate with Adam as Romans 5:12 has "death" entering the world by one man's sin and thus Adam had to experience spiritual "death" prior to his physical death just as we do or else it could not be our experience as death in any form does not originate with us but with Adam death is "passed upon all men."

6. Hence, "in the day" Adam ate spiritual death occurred, thus spiritual separation from God occurred which began the process of physical corruption that ultimately led to his phsyical death just as it does in all of Adam's seed "for in Adam all die."

7. Adam was created in the moral image of God which is "true holiness and righteousness" (Eph. 4:24; Col. 3:10) as Adam was "made upright" (Eccl. 7:29).

8. Adam's spiritual relationship with God prior to his sin with regard to his "spirit" was in a right relationship with God, in fellowship with God and worshipped God as Jesus said that God is "a spirit and they that worship him MUST WORSHIP HIM IN SPIRIT" and Adam worshipped God prior to the fall. If our spirit is "dead" (separated from God) then his spirit became "dead" at the point of sin and thus he was spiritually separated from God due to sin. His spiritual union with God was conditional based upon obedience while ours is unconditional based upon Christ's obedience.

Bottom line is Adam cannot PASS to us what he did not first possess himself. Spiritual death cannot be our experience if it were not first the experience of Adam as "death" is inclusive of both spiritual and physical and "death" does not originate with us but with Adam. Death is "passed" from Adam to us and thus we only experience what Adam's sin brought into the world and so his sin must have brought into the world spiritual death prior to his physical death as that is the true order in our experience. Spiritual death precedes physical death and is the cause while physical death is the consequence.

 

[The Biblicist]

Being "dead" spiritually is an active condition of the spirit. The condition is "in tresspasses and sins" and it is an active condition:

Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

This active condition of the human "dead" spirit is further characterized in chapter four:

This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart: {blindness: or, hardness }
19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.

This condition of Spirit is the inward cause for the outward consequences of a manifest life of disobedience, just as the quickening of spirit or new birth or new creation is the inward cause for the outward consequences of a manifest life of obedience.

Adam was created "upright" meaning his inward condition of spirit was created in "true holiness and righteousness" or in the moral image of God from which he fell - thus "the fall".

 

[37818]

Adam and Eve died that very day they obtained that divine knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 2:17; Genesis 3:22).

 

[The Biblicist]

Adam and Eve died that very day they obtained that divine knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 2:17; Genesis 3:22).

Yes, but they did not die physically in that day as Adam lived to be 930 years of age (Gen.5. They died spiritually in that day. Spiritual death always precedes physical death and actually is the cause of physical death as spiritual death separates a person from God who is the source of life ("being alienated from the life of God" - Eph. 4:18). Perhaps that is what you were getting at when you said they died that very day?

 

[37818]

Yes, but they did not die physically in that day as Adam lived to be 930 years of age (Gen.5. They died spiritually in that day. Spiritual death always precedes physical death and actually is the cause of physical death as spiritual death separates a person from God who is the source of life ("being alienated from the life of God" - Eph. 4:18). Perhaps that is what you were getting at when you said they died that very day?

Yes. The term "spiritual" death is our explanatory adverb for the type of death, death being a separation from [a type of] life.

 

[percho]

Even though you were once born, in Adam, yet you were dead, in Adam, and then at age, whatever, you physically died and joined Adam in death, now in Christ who was born, in Adam, died, in Adam, yet made alive in the Spirit, the firstborn from the dead, received from the Father the Holy Spirit and shed it forth to you, thus making you alive in Christ, must not you wait until the coming of the Lord, before you share with him his glory of being born from the dead, then making him, the Son, firstborn among many brethren?

Is it not, still about?
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.(Dying thou dost die) Gen Gen 2:7.15-17

For the creation (Adam?) was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope;

From the moment he was created and given a law, was he going to need to be born again? Was being born again the in hope?

Was Christ, the firstborn from the dead actually, the Hope? Actually: The substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen?

 

[percho]

Yes, but they did not die physically in that day as Adam lived to be 930 years of age (Gen.5. They died spiritually in that day. Spiritual death always precedes physical death and actually is the cause of physical death as spiritual death separates a person from God who is the source of life ("being alienated from the life of God" - Eph. 4:18). Perhaps that is what you were getting at when you said they died that very day?

In your opinion would you say they were saved or unsaved? Would the covering of them in animal skins show they were covered in the blood of Christ?

 

[Reynolds]

In your opinion would you say they were saved or unsaved? Would the covering of them in animal skins show they were covered in the blood of Christ?

They were as much "saved" as Abraham and Moses were.

 

[The Biblicist]

In your opinion would you say they were saved or unsaved? Would the covering of them in animal skins show they were covered in the blood of Christ?

Hebrews 11:3 with Acts 10:43. There has never been another kind of salvation but one because there has never been another kind of lost condition but one.

 

[The Biblicist]

For the creation (Adam?) was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope;

No, the subjection here is from the time sin and death entered into the world as that is when the natural world changed due to sin.

From the moment he was created and given a law, was he going to need to be born again? Was being born again the in hope?

No, he had no need of new birth as he was made "upright" in spirit and heart but his life was conditioned (Gen. 2:17) upon remaining sinless. Sinless people do not need Christ, do not need salvation. His need for salvation began with the fall into a sinful condition.

Was Christ, the firstborn from the dead actually, the Hope? Actually: The substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen?

You need to study the biblical usage and application of "firstborn" as it hardly ever refers to the actual first person born in a family. Instead, it is used to describe the POSITION of preeminence in inheritance rights and blessing above other children. He stands in the POSITION of preeminence and blessing with regard to inheritance rights over the world. Through his death and resurrection he defeated the usurper of that position (Satan) who usurped that position by deception and sin.

 

[percho]

No, the subjection here is from the time sin and death entered into the world as that is when the natural world changed due to sin.



No, he had no need of new birth as he was made "upright" in spirit and heart but his life was conditioned (Gen. 2:17) upon remaining sinless. Sinless people do not need Christ, do not need salvation. His need for salvation began with the fall into a sinful condition.



You need to study the biblical usage and application of "firstborn" as it hardly ever refers to the actual first person born in a family. Instead, it is used to describe the POSITION of preeminence in inheritance rights and blessing above other children. He stands in the POSITION of preeminence and blessing with regard to inheritance rights over the world. Through his death and resurrection he defeated the usurper of that position (Satan) who usurped that position by deception and sin.

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
Gen 1:27,31 Gen 2:1-3

The creation was finished.Everything from day one to day seven that was created , was done. It included Adam the last thing created, unless you want to include the Sabbath as created through resting.

For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; Rom 8:20

Adam had nothing to do with the subjection or through willful sin the subjection would have come about and the verse says that was not so.



Phil 3:20,21 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Are we going to be conformed to the image of the dead soul Jesus in Hades, the dead body laying in the tomb or conformed to first and to date only, one, given life from the dead to die no more, no more to return to corruption?

But God raised him from the dead: God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David. Acts 13:30,33,34

What day begotten, when, firstborn from the dead? It says; Firstborn from the dead. Very specific.

Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Heb 1:2
Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? Heb 1:4,5

When did the heir of all things, inherit all things?
We are presently joint heirs with Christ, when do we become inheritors with Christ?

 

[HankD]

The Cure:
John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

 

[percho]

The Cure:
John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

To make it more interesting.

Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him (Christ) whom he hath sent. John 6:29

Who by him (Christ) do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. 1 Peter 1:21

 

[percho]

Almost looks like a can't miss.

 

[The Biblicist]

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
Gen 1:27,31 Gen 2:1-3

The creation was finished.Everything from day one to day seven that was created , was done. It included Adam the last thing created, unless you want to include the Sabbath as created through resting.

You forget one thing! God pronounced it "good" and "very good" which God can never do if death and sin were already existent. Sin and death entered the world due to one man's disobedience and that is repeated over and over again in romans 5:12-19.

Your false theology is what causes you to deny the obvious. Get rid of your false theology and begin with solid Biblical basics.

 

[HankD]

Sin and death entered the world due to one man's disobedience and that is repeated over and over again in Romans 5:12-19.

I would add - that is proven over and over again by each of us (though it doesn't need to be proven).

 

[loDebar]

You forget one thing! God pronounced it "good" and "very good" which God can never do if death and sin were already existent. Sin and death entered the world due to one man's disobedience and that is repeated over and over again in romans 5:12-19.

Your false theology is what causes you to deny the obvious. Get rid of your false theology and begin with solid Biblical basics.

Things were not morally good but good according to God's purpose of redemption

 

[The Biblicist]

Things were not morally good but good according to God's purpose of redemption

That is simply impossible! God created man "upright" (Eccl. 12:7) in God's MORAL image as man is a moral being and his test was a moral test. He was morally good until the day he morally violated God's law as violating God's law is violating the law of a moral God and what he did was morally wrong.

 

[loDebar]

He was considered unaccountable(not innocent) until he became able to understand right and wrong, as you were.

Think, do not do as I did , accept everything we are told without reading scripture ourselves.

Why would God place an sinless innocent in the same place and time where the arch villain was sent from Heaven?

 

[loDebar]

It is a trick of the devil to try to consider man innocent or perfect in he Garden and that we should return Eden and then Eden can be like Heaven . This is Mormon AND Islam end teaching