Featured Spiritual Death

Scripture tells us that we were born of the flesh and Adam was created flesh. Scripture also tells us that it is impossible for flesh to inherit the kingdom of God.

So all must be "born again"/ "born from above"/ "born of the spirit".

Anything other way of approaching the issue is philosophical rather than theological.

I hope that helps.

 

There is no "except" in Scripture.

You have taken up philosophy- NOT theology. These are two very different ways of approaching Scripture.

 

No, I am not confusing myself at all. If I have poorly articulated my position then you have my apology. Just read what the Bible states - not what you feel it "implies".

Scripture states that Adam was created flesh.

Scripture states we are "of the flesh".

Scripture states it us impossible for "flesh" to inherit the kingdom of God.

Scripture states spiritual life is only "in Christ".

Scripture states men must be "born again"; born "of the spirit".

The only reason I can think of for you (and @The Biblicist , @Yeshua1 & @Martin Marprelate ) to see a need to add a theory about man really being spiritually alive and then experiencing a spiritual death is that you do not believe Scripture sufficient without your additions.

Is there another reason to add to Scripture what is not in the actual text?

If so, do you think these philosophical additions should be given the same weight as Scripture?

Do you believe it appropriate to build doctrine on these theories?

 

I do not believe so. The reason is this "second death" is at Judgment (on "that day"). They do, however, suffer the consequences of sin (they die).

This also is a philosophical question rather than theological due to its starting point. I am not sure we can dogmatically know how God will judge infants. I am not sure it matters except in the context of providing a comfort to a parent who has lost a child (and even then the direction should be pointing to a perfect union with God rather than with a lost child).

 

Why do you believe all of those ideas were left to man to develop rather than explicitly stated in Scripture?

It seems you are approching gnosticism in how you handle Scripture. Here your claim is essentially that the Bible was meant to be understood not by what it actually states but through what you believe hidden in implication (what you see between the text). Thise we ho take a more "literal" approach to the actual text, in your view, lack understanding because they do not hold these truths hidden beneath the biblical text.

This thread is approaching closure. I once held very similar views as you hold now. I took about a year (much of it discussed on the BB) and fid what I recommend you do now.

Here is a challenge for you.

Get a dry erase board. Write down your view. Line by line write down Scripture that affirms your view. Erase any part if ypur view (even if you are absolutely sure you are correct) that is not stated in Scripture.

Perhaps then you can see our disagreement. Very little (if any) of what you have argued here is written in the text of Scripture. What you have been relying on is your understanding, yout "tradition" or narrative - not Scripture itself.

I hope you take the time to do the exercise. I think you may better learn where you stand (I did). It's like the illustration of the boiling the frog - little by little, inch by inch, you move away from the actual text and unless you look back you never realize how many miles you have traveled and that you on a "proper understanding" rather than Scripture itself.

 

I never tried to get around that. Although another topic, what I rejected was (to borrow from the "radical reformers") the "romish" residue of your tradition. Consider how often Scripture deals with the Scapegoat. What we can say is it symbolizes Christ removing the sins of the people. Now look at what you've added from those few verses.

What you have done is used Scripture to justify your position rather than derive your position from that text. The Scapegoat symbolically carried away the sins, but never suffered (biblically....in practice the Jews often killed the animal anyway so it couldn't return).

 

The topic is actually branching out quickly (just as the thread is about to close).

I said last night I’d close the thread this morning. If anyone wants to continue any of these discussions then please feel free to start another thread. I started one off one post regarding how we form our theology.


Thread is Closed.