Spiritual gifts - opinions wanted

[rlvaughn]

I have been looking at, comparing and contrasting the lists of spiritual gifts found in the Apostle Paul's writings (Rom. 12:6-8; I Cor. 12:8-10; 12:28; Eph. 4:11). I am considering these in light of I Peter 4:10-11:

As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God. If any man speak (laleo), let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister (diakoneo), let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

It appears from Peter that there are two broad divisions of ministry/gifts -- speaking and serving. Is it appropriate, and not wresting the Scriptures, to consider that all the spiritual gifts can and do fit into these two categories?

Here are the gifts from the other passages:

Romans 12:6-8 -- prophecy, ministry, teaching, exhortation, giv(ing), rul(ing), shew(ing) mercy.

I Corinthians 12:8-10 -- the word of wisdom, the word of knowledge, faith, gifts of healing, working of miracles, prophecy, discerning of spirits, divers kinds of tongues, interpretation of tongues.

I Corinthians 12:28 -- apostles, prophets, teachers, miracles, gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

Ephesians 4:11 -- apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers.

 

[mountainrun]

The left out the three that Paul says-- in 1 Cor. 13-- will remain...faith, hope, and love, and the greatest of these is love.

In the preceding verses in 1 cor. 13 he mentions that certain gifts will pass away.

This is a given, the only question being, has this happened yet.

The only ones I see strongly evident as gifts today are faith, hope and love.

The gift of miracles is not evident, nor is Biblical tongues or healing.

God certainly works miracles and heals but I see no men who have these gifts.

I see many people who are good at certain things in the church, but I don't know as I could say positively that they are gifted.

I also hear many people add gifts that are NOT found in the NT church.

Like singing. Athletic abiblity.

Talents and abilities are not necessarily gifts.

And people who spend years studying something in school can not be said to be gifted when they are good at it, just well learned.

Asking me to prove that certain gifts no longer exist is impossible as you cannot prove a negative. Besides, it is just my opinion.

However, if anyone can show evidence of faith healing or prophecy or miracles or raising the dead in this day and age I will joyously recant.

MR

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Spiritual Gifts Inventory?
What will please the Son of Glory?
To speak in tongues or just explain
The meaning of the thing refrained.
Knowing those that are not of God
As upon this earth they trod
Preaching truth to all who hear
That the rapture is drawing near
A healing touch or spoken word
Or instant miracles undeterred
To read and learn from many tomes
Or wisdom to keep godly homes
The best of all is faith in Christ
For eternal life, none will suffice.

 

[EdSutton]

WANTED-- SPIRITUAL GIFTS

Now that would make a great sign for a church Marquee.

SPIRITUAL GIFTS AT WORK HERE

An even better sign.

SPIRITUAL GIFTS DISCOURAGED

Unfortunately what most should read!

Maybe the bulletin could have a line in it as well that says: "At the urging of the Senior Pastor, the Holy Spirit was quenched successfully last week. That might say it all.

Ed

 

[rlvaughn]

Thanks for the opinions. I failed to make my question clear. I'm not concerned with whether the spiritual gifts are still in effect today, but rather if all the spiritual gifts mentioned in the N.T. can properly be categorized as either speaking or serving (ministry) gifts.

For example,

Speaking gifts: prophecy, tongues, teaching, exhortation, etc.

Serving gifts: healing, helps, governments, giving, etc.

But might we have to "shave and sand" on gifts such as discerning of spirits and faith to make them fit. Or do they logically up under these categories just as well as the others?

 

[EdSutton]

The short answer is yes. This is a valid division of gifts, IMO. There may well be some overlap, but they are valid categories.
The same may be said as to temporary and permanent.
MR had some valid points, there, as well.
I'm not sure I exegete faith, hope, and love as spiritual gifts, although there is a valid gift of faith, as well.
What about the gift of celibacy? Comments?
Ed

 

[EdSutton]

Chasing a theological rabbit, here.
Does Paul ever claim any other gift than apostle?
How many are ascribed to Barnabas?
A thought.
Ed

 

[rlvaughn]

Thanks for the comments, Ed. These do seem to be valid divisions to me. I am kind of hoping to see someone challenge the idea though, in order to see what the opposite line of thinking might be. The overlap of the gifts by categories and the division of the temporal and permanent sounds like good research to spin off from this. Like you, I question considering faith, hope and love as used in I Cor. 13:13 as the same kind of spiritual gifts as in these other lists. My initial reaction is that the "faith" listed in I Cor. 12:9 as a gift is something different from the faith spoken of in I Cor. 13.

How many gifts did Paul claim? Not sure, haven't thought of it in exactly those terms. First thought comes to mind - he said he spoke in tongues more than them all. Barnabas? Don't know.

 

[mima]

I can only tell you what happened to me. I am very Baptist. I am a soul winner that leads hundreds every year in a sinners prayer unto Salvation. If you are a Baptist you understand about a sinners prayer unto salvation. Now for many years I made feeble attempts at delivering the message of a soul winner. Then I received the gift of praying in tongues, and immediately my message became very effective and begin to win many souls to the kingdom. Can you have this same gift, you can but my guess is that you have been conditioned not to receive this gift, therefore the gift will not be forthcoming. If you've ever seen anyone under the conviction of the Holy Spirit but they don't know they under the conviction of the Holy Spirit you perhaps understand what I'm talking about. As a committed Christian you are under the conviction in your heart that these gifts are real but because of conditioning you fail to listen to your heart.

 

[Ed Edwards]

The problems I see with (especially on-line) spiritual gift inventories:'

1. It is much better to take pencil inventories with your
accountability group (probably including your pastor) than
on-line spiritual gift inventories. The people who you work in
church with are much more able to see your gifts than some quiz
maker you never see.

2. The Holy Spirit assigns gifts within the church by the
need of the church, not by what one would like. It does me
no good to have the 'gift of martyrdom' if there is nobody out
to 'get me'.

3. You only have one major gift, maybe two, some three.
Some who take the on-line tests think they have six or eight???

4. I've been on a nominating committee (filling jobs and committees
with voulenter workers) at my present church for like 22 years
out of the last 33. The person who gets the job is not the person
most gifted, not the most highly trained person -- it is the
first person to say 'yes, I will'.

On topic:
It is fine to categorize the Gifts of the Spirit into two
categories: speaking and doing.
I've also seen the Gifts of the Spirit divided into:
showy gifts
hidden gifts

The 'showy gifts' are the ones you see on TV,
the not so 'showy gifts' are the ones you don't see on Tv.

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by mima:
I can only tell you what happened to me. I am very Baptist. I am a soul winner that leads hundreds every year in a sinners prayer unto Salvation. If you are a Baptist you understand about a sinners prayer unto salvation. Now for many years I made feeble attempts at delivering the message of a soul winner. Then I received the gift of praying in tongues, and immediately my message became very effective and begin to win many souls to the kingdom. Can you have this same gift, you can but my guess is that you have been conditioned not to receive this gift, therefore the gift will not be forthcoming. If you've ever seen anyone under the conviction of the Holy Spirit but they don't know they under the conviction of the Holy Spirit you perhaps understand what I'm talking about. As a committed Christian you are under the conviction in your heart that these gifts are real but because of conditioning you fail to listen to your heart.

By your experiences of speaking in tongues it sounds like you are Charismatic, not Baptist. Either way you do not list a Baptist Church in your profile, so we ask you to post in non-Baptist areas only. Thank you for cooperating with BB rules.
DHK

 

[drfuss]

DHK posts concerning mima:
"By your experiences of speaking in tongues it sounds like you are Charismatic, not Baptist. Either way you do not list a Baptist Church in your profile, so we ask you to post in non-Baptist areas only. Thank you for cooperating with BB rules.
DHK "

Mima's profile says her home church is the Illmo Baptist Church. There are more Charismatic Baptists than most Baptists realize.

To me, I Peter 4:10,11 can mean we should use the gift God has given us. And we should not try to use a gift given to someone else, but not given to us.

Nor should we critize others who have gifts we ourselves do not have. We should not limit God in how He deals with others.

 

[Ben W]

Originally posted by DHK:
By your experiences of speaking in tongues it sounds like you are Charismatic, not Baptist. Either way you do not list a Baptist Church in your profile, so we ask you to post in non-Baptist areas only. Thank you for cooperating with BB rules.
DHK

Here are two Charasmatic Baptist Denominations

http://www.pfwb.org/

http://www.fullgospelbaptist.org/

Here is a link to Ron Phillips Ministry, an SBC Ministry that is Charasmatic in nature - http://www.ronphillips.org/

The point being that it is quite normal to be Baptist and Charasmatic, or even Bapticostal if that is the label that people prefer!

 

[cindig2]

I don't beleive it is "normal" to see a Baptist Church that is also Charasmatic. Not a Southern Baptist Church, anyway. If someone wants to call themselves Baptiscostal, if they are so concerned with tacking Baptist on their name, that is their business, but it is not "normal" for a Baptist to be Charasmatic.

 

[TaterTot]

agreed. Now if you mean that worship style is a bit more modern, yes. But not the tongues, prophecy (in the charismatic sense) and manifestation of the HS, then its not "normal" for Baptists

 

[Brother Ian]

There does seem to be two broad categories of gifts. Speaking and serving seem to be appropriate, but I do like thinking in terms of hidden and seen gifts.

I believe many Christians have done little or no Scriptural study of spiritual gifts. They may have read a book, but have not looked at the Scriptures. These people believe that playing the piano or singing is a spiritual gift (thet're not). Perhaps this is what they have been taught. If so, they haven't been taught the Bible.

Let's get back to the Bible and study it for ourselves.

 

[EdSutton]

Let's get back to the Bible and study it for ourselves.

What a novel idea! And on the Baptist Board, no less! Now if one could only get this idea, here, on a few other threads!!

In His Grace,
Ed