Spiritual Interpretation....part two

[Iconoclast]

Several posts went in answered in the other thread.....

point1]rimitive bap1832 posted this....I am interested in the last paragraph
;
To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God: -Ac. 1.3

When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. -Ac. 1.6, 7

It is rather difficult to imagine that the apostles posed this question to the Lord because they were completely misinformed. Not only did Jesus not correct them, but the kingdom of God was a vital part of their preaching (Ac. 8.12; 14.22; 19.8; 20.25; 28.23, 31).
I would like to see this developed more.....What was the nature of this Kingdom....that which already is?

#129 PrmtvBptst1832, Wednesday at 11:53 PM

 

[Iconoclast]

point2]
JOJ rightly challenged my understanding of "Heaven"he said;

You have the presupposition that Heaven is a "spiritual" place but not a physical. I beg to differ. heaven is a real, physical place. The New Jerusalem is going to actually come down to earth, and it can do this because it is physical.

I have been restudying this whole idea of what and where is heaven...in part because of this excerpt of a sermon by Kit Culver.....on Sacred Space...God with us....part of the transcript....what are your thoughts on this?? everyone can offer....
When Christians think of God’s habitation, they invariably think of a place called heaven. This is not incorrect as far as it goes, but most have a conception of heaven that is, at best, partial and indistinct; to that extent it is necessarily flawed. The common notion of heaven is that it is an ethereal, spiritual place that exists somewhere “up there”; a place where God sits on His throne and administers His rule over His creation while looking down upon the earth and its people and activities. This conception is understandable given that the Bible employs this sort of imagery in its portrayal of heaven.
a. First of all, Scripture uses spatial – and most especially vertical – language to speak of heaven. Notably, Hebrew and Greek each employ the same word to refer to the sky, the realm of the celestial bodies, and the place of God’s habitation. But this language is metaphorical, not literal: the “up there” representation of heaven is intended to suggest the ideas of remoteness and superiority. Heaven is “above the earth” in the sense that it is unearthly; it is a higher mode of reality.
The otherworldly quality of heaven is further emphasized by the strange and unearthly images associated with it (cf. Ezekiel 1:4-28, 8:1-4, 10:1-22). Similarly, its status as a higher realm or mode of reality is highlighted by the “enameled” imagery the Bible uses to describe it. It is associated with glass, crystal, and luminous metals such as bronze and gold. Even more, it is a jeweled realm, marked by the radiance characteristic of precious gems (cf. Ezekiel 1; Revelation 4:1-6, 21:9-21). These things emphasize permanence (expressed by hardness and durability) as well as glory (expressed by value, brilliance, and luminosity).
b. One important and obvious reason – though not the only reason – for representing heaven as above the earth is the fact that it is God’s dwelling. Because He is “high and lifted up,” so also is the place of His habitation (cf. Isaiah 6:1-3, 57:15).
c. And because God dwells in heaven, it is the place from which He exercises the various aspects of His rule over His creation. Thus heaven is portrayed in the imagery of a temple and throne room (Psalm 11:1-4, 103:19; Isaiah 6:1-4, 66:1; Ezekiel 1:26-28, 10:1-5; Daniel 7:1-10; Revelation 21:22-22:1-2; etc.).
d. In keeping with heaven’s status as God’s habitation, the Bible uses the language of obscurity and inaccessibility to describe it. It is a realm obscured from human sight and removed from human access. Significantly, God must grant men both the sight of it and entrance into it (cf. God’s presence at Sinai and the Holy of Holies with Acts 7:54-56; Hebrews 11:8-16; Revelation 4:1, 15:5, 19:11, 21:25ff).
2. Heaven is God’s dwelling place, but specifically it is the realm in which God is present in relation to His creation. Most importantly, it speaks not just to where God is, but how He is with respect to His creation. With this understanding, two things should be obvious: The first is that heaven is a biblical concept having greater scope and significance than many Christians imagine. At the same time, God’s habitation must be conceived more broadly than the place we call “heaven.” Otherwise, what are we to make of Moses’ declaration in Psalm 90:1 or the insistence of the writer to the Hebrews (12:22-24)?

 

[Iconoclast]

point3]
John of Japan said:

So what do you do about the many, many OT prophecies concerning Israel that are not yet fulfilled? (See my post #88 for just a few.) All fulfilled OT prophecies about Israel were fulfilled literally.

Click to expand...
I believe them in light of NT. revelation, like here;
23 Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the Lord your God: for he hath given you the former rain moderately, and he will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month.

24 And the floors shall be full of wheat, and the vats shall overflow with wine and oil.

25 And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten, the cankerworm, and the caterpiller, and the palmerworm, my great army which I sent among you.

26 And ye shall eat in plenty, and be satisfied, and praise the name of the Lord your God, that hath dealt wondrously with you: and my people shall never be ashamed.

27 And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the Lord your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed.

28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.

31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the Lord come.

32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the Lord hath said, and in the remnant whom the Lord shall call.
Click to expand...
Then Peter preached this;
16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:

20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:

21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.


This is the whole point of the OP, which this post answers in no way, shape or form. Since 1st Coming prophecies were all fulfilled literally, where do you get the right to interpret prophecies of the 2nd Coming "spiritually"?
"Hyper literally"?? There is no such thing. You either interpret literally or not. When the Bible says, "This same Jesus...shall so come in like manner," either He is coming physically (literal interpretation) or coming (or came already) "spiritually," (allegorizing).
Click to expand...
Now Peter says exactly.....This is that which was spoken by Joel

He does not say; this is like that which was spoken by Joel...
He says....THIS IS THAT...

He does not say...this is a partial fulfillment...no......THIS IS THAT...
He does not say...this is part of a double fulfillment, and say it is like looking over two mountain ranges, you cannot see what is in the middle

No...this is that....

The language of;
19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: did not bother Peter as similar metaphorical language was used in the Ot, for a change of government, or administration, unlike premill persons who seek to get out of this holding out for your literal fulfillment....

20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:

Again, metaphors which do not answer the OP at all. Why is it that allegorizers on this thread cannot seem to understand what a metaphor is?

Click to expand...
Was Peter allergorizing? Or speaking of what happened right then,,,,this IS THAT

 

[percho]

I will post some scripture and ask a few questions, relative to the kingdom of God.

And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear. He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return. Luke 19:11,12

God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Heb 1:1,2

Is the kingdom of God one of the things of which the heir, the Son is to inherit?

Is this the Son, the heir, being spoken of? 1 John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 1 John 5:5,6 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

1 Cor 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

When and by what means did the Son, the heir, become the inheritor of the kingdom of God? Did he go somewhere to receive the kingdom of God? Is this same thing seen in the book of Daniel?

Has anyone else at this time inherited the kingdom of God? Has anyone else who lived and died as corruptible flesh and blood, been changed?

Luke 19:15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.

Does the Son return having received the kingdom of God and the following happens? 1 Thes 4:15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.

Those alive will not precede those who who have died into what? The alive, flesh and blood, will not inherit the kingdom of God before those of flesh and blood who have died but will all inherit at the same time.

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thes 4:16,17 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 1 Cor 15:51-53 ---- To inherit the kingdom of God and rule with Christ. Yes? or No?

1 Chro 29:23 Then Solomon sat on the throne of the LORD as king instead of David his father, and prospered; and all Israel obeyed him.
Acts 2:30-35 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he hath shed forth this, (delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.) which ye now see and hear. For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD (God the Father) said unto my Lord,(The Son of God) Sit thou on my right hand, Until I make thy foes thy footstool.

Rev 11:15-18 follows here, need to read context fits perfect with Luke 19:15-18.

Talk to me about the kingdom of God...

Am I off base? Where?

 

[Covenanter]

I will post some scripture and ask a few questions, relative to the kingdom of God.

And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear. He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return. Luke 19:11,12

God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Heb 1:1,2

Is the kingdom of God one of the things of which the heir, the Son is to inherit?

Is this the Son, the heir, being spoken of? 1 John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 1 John 5:5,6 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

1 Cor 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

When and by what means did the Son, the heir, become the inheritor of the kingdom of God? Did he go somewhere to receive the kingdom of God? Is this same thing seen in the book of Daniel?

Has anyone else at this time inherited the kingdom of God? Has anyone else who lived and died as corruptible flesh and blood, been changed?

Luke 19:15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.

Does the Son return having received the kingdom of God and the following happens? 1 Thes 4:15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.

Those alive will not precede those who who have died into what? The alive, flesh and blood, will not inherit the kingdom of God before those of flesh and blood who have died but will all inherit at the same time.

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thes 4:16,17 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 1 Cor 15:51-53 ---- To inherit the kingdom of God and rule with Christ. Yes? or No?

1 Chro 29:23 Then Solomon sat on the throne of the LORD as king instead of David his father, and prospered; and all Israel obeyed him.
Acts 2:30-35 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he hath shed forth this, (delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.) which ye now see and hear. For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD (God the Father) said unto my Lord,(The Son of God) Sit thou on my right hand, Until I make thy foes thy footstool.

Rev 11:15-18 follows here, need to read context fits perfect with Luke 19:15-18.

Talk to me about the kingdom of God...

Am I off base? Where?

I suggest there is a limit to the interpretation of parables, in that they are told to convey a message. Analysing the details distracts from the message.

The whole concept of the kingdom of God requires an omnipotent, eternal, unchanging God. The LORD is King.

In the purposes of God, he did not establish an immediate earthly kingdom. Jesus' victory is complete, he rose from the dead and ascended to his throne. But at present his kingdom is operating in the spiritual realm. We have new, spiritual, eternal life, so are living in two realms, spiritual and earthly.

Solomon sat on the throne of the LORD. Previously, when the Israelites demanded a king, that was a rejection of the kingship of God. But God cannot cease to be King. In the hundreds of years when there was no king over Israel, was God's promise broken? Jeremiah 33:19-26 Kings and priests were human agents performing as types of Christ.

Futurist doctrine is based on a serious misunderstanding of eternal, spiritual reality.

 

[percho]

I suggest there is a limit to the interpretation of parables, in that they are told to convey a message. Analysing the details distracts from the message.

The whole concept of the kingdom of God requires an omnipotent, eternal, unchanging God. The LORD is King.

In the purposes of God, he did not establish an immediate earthly kingdom. Jesus' victory is complete, he rose from the dead and ascended to his throne. But at present his kingdom is operating in the spiritual realm. We have new, spiritual, eternal life, so are living in two realms, spiritual and earthly.

Solomon sat on the throne of the LORD. Previously, when the Israelites demanded a king, that was a rejection of the kingship of God. But God cannot cease to be King. In the hundreds of years when there was no king over Israel, was God's promise broken? Jeremiah 33:19-26 Kings and priests were human agents performing as types of Christ.

Futurist doctrine is based on a serious misunderstanding of eternal, spiritual reality.

In the same context of 19-26 is V 16 In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, The LORD our righteousness.

? 70 AD, presently, future?

In your two realm living have you currently inherited the kingdom of God?
Have you preceded, Stephen, one asleep in Jesus, anywhere? Has Stephen preceded you anywhere?

And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect. Heb 11:39,40

And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Phil 3:9-12

 

[Covenanter]

In the same context of 19-26 is V 16 In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, The LORD our righteousness.

? 70 AD, presently, future?

In your two realm living have you curren
tly inherited the kingdom of God?
Have you preceded, Stephen, one asleep in Jesus, anywhere? Has Stephen preceded you anywhere?

And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect. Heb 11:39,40

And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Phil 3:9-12

Start with Hebrews 11. He clearly means the OC believers were not made perfect apart from Christ. We have the realized NC, eternal covenant, that counts in the OC cloud of witnesses.

If earthly Jerusalem were intended by the OC prophecy, we should expect by Christ and his resurrection and ascension to David's throne to establish a restored earthly kingdom. We would not expect the kingdom of Israel to be abandoned for 2000 years. In fact we would expect the prophesied state to exist seventy weeks from the restoration, after the completion of messiah's saving work. It didn't happen.

We should therefore look to Jesus and his saving work, and the teaching of the Apostles for their understanding of prophecy, not what we may consider fulfilled prophecy should be.

 

[Covenanter]

This needs proper discussion:

I think we all agree that Gabriel's 70 weeks are 490 years.
The purpose of that prophecy is to teach that Messiah will complete his saving work as detailed it v. 24.
The 70th week ministry begins with his anointing/baptism, his crucifixion is in the midst of the week. During his earthly ministry, and during the first 3 1/2 years of the Apostolic ministry, Jesus confirmed the everlasting covenant on his own blood. Many thousands of Jews were converted but the Jewish leaders rejected the covenant by stoning Stephen. The Holy Spirit declared them 'uncircumcised'. The old covenant was FINISHED.
All that remained was for the invading army to destroy both city and sanctuary.
It all happened exactly as prophesied.

Is there a more literal understanding/interpretation?
Note, with respect to the OP, vision and prophecy were sealed up. See Jesus' words in Luke 24.

We have the authority of the LORD, Gabriel, Daniel, Jesus, the Holy Spirit and the Apostles to reject futuristic literal interpretations, so-called. Scripture Interpretation now must be spiritual, in terms of the present spiritual kingdom of our Saviour God. The kingdom, aka the church now comprises one redeemed people of God, Jew and Gentiles in one body.

 

[Yeshua1]

Several posts went in answered in the other thread.....

point1]rimitive bap1832 posted this....I am interested in the last paragraph
;
To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God: -Ac. 1.3

When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. -Ac. 1.6, 7

It is rather difficult to imagine that the apostles posed this question to the Lord because they were completely misinformed. Not only did Jesus not correct them, but the kingdom of God was a vital part of their preaching (Ac. 8.12; 14.22; 19.8; 20.25; 28.23, 31).
I would like to see this developed more.....What was the nature of this Kingdom....that which already is?

#129 PrmtvBptst1832, Wednesday at 11:53 PM

As the Messianic Ageas foretold by Isaiah and other OT Prophets now comin unto israel or not? Jesus reply would seem to say not at this time, but not a never!

 

[Iconoclast]

As the Messianic Ageas foretold by Isaiah and other OT Prophets now comin unto israel or not? Jesus reply would seem to say not at this time, but not a never!

Paul quotes isa17x in chapters 9-15....saying it is now.

 

[Yeshua1]

Paul quotes isa17x in chapters 9-15....saying it is now.

except why are people still sick and laim, while is there still evil on the loose? Under Messiah, no more sickness/disease/famine/eil acts etc!

 

[Iconoclast]

except why are people still sick and laim, while is there still evil on the loose? Under Messiah, no more sickness/disease/famine/eil acts etc!

110 The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

2 The Lord shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.
Jesus rules from Zion right now.

 

[Iconoclast]

Primitive baptist1832 said this;

It is rather difficult to imagine that the apostles posed this question to the Lord because they were completely misinformed. Not only did Jesus not correct them, but the kingdom of God was a vital part of their preaching (Ac. 8.12; 14.22; 19.8; 20.25; 28.23, 31).

12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
21 And when they had preached the gospel to that city, and had taught many, they returned again to Lystra, and to Iconium, and Antioch,

22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

8 And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God.

23 Save that the Holy Ghost witnesseth in every city, saying that bonds and afflictions abide me.

24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.

25 And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more.

23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.

24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.

30 And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him,

31 Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.

We are told He preached on the King, and the Kingdom....for two years....

It looks as if it was more comprehensive then just looking at Isa11, over and over...and saying, stay tuned for the rapture so we can escape...

Not one of these passages suggest any such thing.

 

[Iconoclast]

Paul quotes isa17x in chapters 9-15....saying it is now.

8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

9 And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name.

10 And again he saith, Rejoice, ye Gentiles, with his people.

11 And again, Praise the Lord, all ye Gentiles; and laud him, all ye people.

12 And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust.

13 Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost

27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

28 For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.

29 And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha

33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed

15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.

21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

 

[percho]

110 The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

2 The Lord shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.
Jesus rules from Zion right now.

1 Cor 15:24 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, ><(Singular) continued*


For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, Until I make thy foes thy footstool. Acts 2:34,35 [[A Psalm of David.]] The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. PS 110:1


But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel. Heb 12:22-24 --- Nothing spoken of a kingdom here.

Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. Acts 3:21

Psalms 110:2 The LORD shall send the rod of Your strength out of Zion.
Rule in the midst of Your enemies!

*1 Cor 15:24 afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.

Rev 11:15-18 Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdoms [fn NU-Text and M-Text read kingdom . . . has become.] of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!” And the twenty-four elders who sat before God on their thrones fell on their faces and worshiped God, saying: “We give You thanks, O Lord God Almighty,
The One who is and who was and who is to come,[fn NU-Text and M-Text omit and who is to come ] Because You have taken Your great power and reigned. The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come,
And the time of the dead, that they should be judged,
And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints,
And those who fear Your name, small and great,
And should destroy those who destroy the earth.”

 

[Yeshua1]

110 The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

2 The Lord shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.
Jesus rules from Zion right now.

Not in the fullest state as under his reign here though, when the Kingdom is over the entire earth!

 

[Iconoclast]

Not in the fullest state as under his reign here though, when the Kingdom is over the entire earth!

Show a verse that makes that claim.....you say that, but I do not see it in scripture.

 

[Yeshua1]

Show a verse that makes that claim.....you say that, but I do not see it in scripture.

Show a verse that makes that claim.....you say that, but I do not see it in scripture.

Show a verse that makes that claim.....you say that, but I do not see it in scripture.

Isaiah 66/Revelation 19/20!

 

[Iconoclast]

1 Cor 15:24 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, ><(Singular) continued*


For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, Until I make thy foes thy footstool. Acts 2:34,35 [[A Psalm of David.]] The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. PS 110:1


But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel. Heb 12:22-24 --- Nothing spoken of a kingdom here.

Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. Acts 3:21

Psalms 110:2 The LORD shall send the rod of Your strength out of Zion.
Rule in the midst of Your enemies!

*1 Cor 15:24 afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.

Rev 11:15-18 Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdoms [fn NU-Text and M-Text read kingdom . . . has become.] of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!” And the twenty-four elders who sat before God on their thrones fell on their faces and worshiped God, saying: “We give You thanks, O Lord God Almighty,
The One who is and who was and who is to come,[fn NU-Text and M-Text omit and who is to come ] Because You have taken Your great power and reigned. The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come,
And the time of the dead, that they should be judged,
And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints,
And those who fear Your name, small and great,
And should destroy those who destroy the earth.”

Yes Percho, these verses are the ones that are important to This whole discussion......here is another;
heb12;
25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:

26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.

27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.

28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

29 For our God is a consuming fire.

Sounds like it is for us right now....

 

[Iconoclast]

Isaiah 66/Revelation 19/20!

Okay...that is a start.
Y1....you need to learn your position if you are going to defend it...

You should be attacking someone like me, insisting I go over Isa 11....,mt 24...you should know all the verses that are used to try and show God has an earthly people and a heavenly people, if you are going to defend your position..
If I ask John of japan...he would have already tried to bite my head off and been all over that more than 200 times Israel means Israel...
I f I asked T Cassidy...he would mount a spirited defense of His postion...but it would be filled with scripture...you should attack me and my position with Zech 14....Mt 24, and 25.....rev3;10. 1thess 4;13-17,1thess 5;9 2thess 1....learn your positon from scripture...no one cares what you think, or I think, if they cannot make a scriptural case to support it....
Isa 66 is a good place and rev 20....even though let me ask you a question...rev 20 says 6 times for a thousand years....where does it say it is on earth?[in rev 20}?