Spiritual understanding - part 8

[Covenanter]

Now compare Romans 8.

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

What will that Spirit do for you and when?

11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. 15 - 17 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

Eph 1:13,14 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. ------ The redemption of our body?

I have always wondered why it is the body that is the temple of the Holy Spirit and not the soul?

I can not see where the scriptures say that the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is resurrection but the assurance of resurrection to incorruptible life in body.

I'm not clear on what you are saying, or asking, or the extent of (dis)agreement.

We are body & soul or spirit - I think 2 part not 3.
As the soul is an essential part of us in this life, so whatever happens in our soul must change our bodily conduct. Our new life of faith must be evident in our daily lives.
Full redemption ultimately will be body & soul, & Paul discusses the obvious problem of the resurrection body in 1 Cor. 15.
At death, our soul goes to heaven to enjoy the presence of our Saviour. John see the souls of the martyrs living & reigning with Christ in the first resurrection. (Rev. 20) In Rev. 6 he sees them under the heavenly altar & in Rev. 7 before the throne.

I can not see where the scriptures say that the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is resurrection but the assurance of resurrection to incorruptible life in body.

When we are converted we become spiritually alive, having been dead in trespasses & sins. Born again describes that new life. It is not a physical resurrection.

The indwelling Holy Spirit is more than assurance, he is the life of God within us - eternal life. I don't think we can argue about technicalities.

We are alive to God, we have eternal life, & that life continues through death to glory, awaiting the general resurrection to the NH&NE.

What I do not see in Scripture is two physical resurrections, separated by a future millennium, with Israel taking centre stage; rapture; tribulations; physical war; earthly kingdoms, etc, all AFTER Jesus returns in glory for resurrection & judgment. Those complex events cannot be proved from Scripture - they are speculative interpretation based on the old covenant prophecies.

What I do see in Scripture is Jesus declaring himself to be the fulfilment of prophecy, Luke 4, his saving work & Gospel proclamation in fulfilment of OC prophecy. Also his fulfilled prophecy of the AD 70 destruction.

All that remains is his final coming & his command to all of is to serve him faithfully during the present millennium, & to watch & pray. (As Jesus counsels at the end of the Olivet prophecy.)

 

[Covenanter]

After being disappointed by our hymnbook & "baptism" hymns I wrote this:

Repent and be baptised
and trust the name of Jesus.
The Gospel call comes clear,
He loves & saves and frees us.
Believe with all your heart
He is the Son of God;
your sins are washed away,
cleansed by his precious blood.
2.
The Spirit shows our sin
as guilty cov'nant breakers;
we must be born again,
He'll cleanse, renew, remake us.
Redeemed & saved by grace;
buried & dead to sin;
and raised to life in Christ;
we live new lives in him.
3.
The Father calls us his;
his children by adoption.
The water speaks of blood -
the price of our redemption.
The children of his love;
joint heirs with Christ, God's Son
one family in Christ;
with all his people one.
4.
Reborn, renewed, restored;
eternal life before us.
Christ walks with us each day
till he to glory calls us.
Then we shall see his face;
be free from all our sin;
this Paradise is ours -
repent and come to him.

Copyright - Ian Day
Tune – “Nun danket” “Now thank we all our God,”
Christian Hymns 51 - 67676666

 

[Yeshua1]

Those living under Apostolic teaching understood that Jesus was already King. A King reigns over a Kingdom......Acts 17:7

He will move from the right hand of the Father to rule here upon the earth at His second coming!

 

[Yeshua1]

So you do preach a cursed "other gospel" offering hope AFTER Jesus returns. Any Scriptures to back up your heresy, or is it another example of your theology without Scripture?

Paul quotes Isaiah when he writes:

2 Cor. 6:1 We then, as workers together with Him also plead with you not to receive the grace of God in vain. 2 For He says:
“In an acceptable time I have heard you,
And in the day of salvation I have helped you."
Behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.​

No, rather that the national Israel will be reborn, as prophesied by Ezekiel himself!

 

[Covenanter]

He will move from the right hand of the Father to rule here upon the earth at His second coming!

No, rather that the national Israel will be reborn, as prophesied by Ezekiel himself!

To the Law and to the Testimony. If they speak not according to this word there is no light in them. Isaiah 8:20​

As usual theology - heretical theology - without Scripture.

 

[Yeshua1]

To the Law and to the Testimony. If they speak not according to this word there is no light in them. Isaiah 8:20​

As usual theology - heretical theology - without Scripture.

Ezekiel saw the Lord restoring national Israel whole, and reborn spiritual, and that has yet to happen!

 

[Iconoclast]

Ezekiel saw the Lord restoring national Israel whole, and reborn spiritual, and that has yet to happen!

I am going to answer your tweets with some of my own so maybe you will get it????

"

Yeshua1, Ezekiel saw the Lord restoring national Israel whole, and reborn spiritual, and that has yet to happen!

The Apostles liked to eat stewed tomatoes though....

Y1 says;

He will move from the right hand of the Father to rule here upon the earth at His second coming!

The Apostles read from the OT though.....
yi says

Was the resurrection of all the saints in AD 70?]

King David had high blood pressure though.....

The majority of the ECF saw it pre mil, and it took the views of Augustine who saw prophecy as spiritual and fulfilled in RCC to have that switched and changed!]

Jesus ate fish and honeycomb

You can have theology given apart from the scriptures, as when I give my viewpoints, it is related th what is in the scriptures, its just that those holding to either pretierism or spirtualozing the scriptures would reject....]

I believe the Apostles would have liked to shop at Costco though...

 

[Yeshua1]

I am going to answer your tweets with some of my own so maybe you will get it????

"
The Apostles liked to eat stewed tomatoes though....

Y1 says;


The Apostles read from the OT though.....
yi says


King David had high blood pressure though.....



Jesus ate fish and honeycomb



I believe the Apostles would have liked to shop at Costco though...

try Ezekiel 37!

 

[Covenanter]

Ezekiel saw the Lord restoring national Israel whole, and reborn spiritual, and that has yet to happen!

Pleeeeeeeeease go back and read my posts. And other people's.

You seem to be incapable of learning how to present a Scriptural argument.

 

[Iconoclast]

try Ezekiel 37!

i am trying it...is this literal?

11 Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.

12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.

Which Israelites is this?
Are they believing Israelites?
When does this happen?

 

[Covenanter]

try Ezekiel 37!

Ez 37 has a context, beginning at ch 1. Ezekiel is in exile with the Jews. His visions relate to the exiles and those still in Israel.

All the promises to the Patriarchs seem to have failed. Even the temple has been destroyed.

So we come to -

i am trying it...is this literal?

11 Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.

12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.

Which Israelites is this?
Are they believing Israelites?
When does this happen?

The dry bones are a parable. The Jews are dead to God. Dry bones. God has plans to restore the nation to the promised land, as recorded by Ezra, Nehemiah and Esther, and the later Prophets.

As we read on in the chapter, we see the new covenant nation united under King David with a covenant of peace.

Chapter 36 is relevant. Verses 24-27 prophesy water and Holy Spirit baptism and new hearts and true heart obedience. We read about the fulfilment at Pentecost and in the Epistles.

The restoration of the nation promises therefore relate to the first century fulfilment, when many thousands of Israel recognized their Messiah and received the promised new life.

The fact that many of the Jewish leaders rejected Christ in no way annulled the promises to those who did believe.

We should understand all the OT prophecies in their immediate context, and in relation to Christ and the Gospel. The church, comprising Jew and Gentiles as one body is the fulfilment of OT prophecies.

Ultimately the NH&NE will see the glorious perfection of all God's promises.

 

[percho]

The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh (rest) come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be. Gen 49:10

When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth the sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: Matt 25:31-34

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 1 Cor 15:50

 

[Yeshua1]

Ez 37 has a context, beginning at ch 1. Ezekiel is in exile with the Jews. His visions relate to the exiles and those still in Israel.

All the promises to the Patriarchs seem to have failed. Even the temple has been destroyed.

So we come to -



The dry bones are a parable. The Jews are dead to God. Dry bones. God has plans to restore the nation to the promised land, as recorded by Ezra, Nehemiah and Esther, and the later Prophets.

As we read on in the chapter, we see the new covenant nation united under King David with a covenant of peace.

Chapter 36 is relevant. Verses 24-27 prophesy water and Holy Spirit baptism and new hearts and true heart obedience. We read about the fulfilment at Pentecost and in the Epistles.

The restoration of the nation promises therefore relate to the first century fulfilment, when many thousands of Israel recognized their Messiah and received the promised new life.

The fact that many of the Jewish leaders rejected Christ in no way annulled the promises to those who did believe.

We should understand all the OT prophecies in their immediate context, and in relation to Christ and the Gospel. The church, comprising Jew and Gentiles as one body is the fulfilment of OT prophecies.

Ultimately the NH&NE will see the glorious perfection of all God's promises.

God in that vision shows to us that He will restore the nation, to have it fully spiritually restored to the Lord !

 

[Iconoclast]

God in that vision shows to us that He will restore the nation, to have it fully spiritually restored to the Lord !

So....the nation comes out of the grave?

 

[Covenanter]

The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh (rest) come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be. Gen 49:10

When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth the sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: Matt 25:31-34

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 1 Cor 15:50

What point are you making?

 

[percho]

So....the nation comes out of the grave?

Isa 66:8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.

Isa 26:19 NIV But your dead will live, LORD; their bodies will rise— let those who dwell in the dust wake up and shout for joy— your dew is like the dew of the morning; the earth will give birth to her dead.

 

[percho]

What point are you making?

I was just wondering if those verses speak of the same moment in time.

 

[Covenanter]

The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh (rest) come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be. Gen 49:10

Shiloh (he whose it is) - a prophecy of the Messiah.

When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth the sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: Matt 25:31-34

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 1 Cor 15:50

I was just wondering if those verses speak of the same moment in time.

Once Shiloh-Messiah came at the incarnation all the prophecies related to Judah and David began to be fulfilled in Jesus. The gathering began at Pentecost and will be completed at the second coming.

The new covenant nation was born in a day at Pentecost. Zechariah 3:8-9

I don't think the Matthew 25 judgment of the nations is a judgment of nations as nations, but the last day general judgment of every tribe, language, people and nation.

 

[Yeshua1]

Shiloh (he whose it is) - a prophecy of the Messiah.





Once Shiloh-Messiah came at the incarnation all the prophecies related to Judah and David began to be fulfilled in Jesus. The gathering began at Pentecost and will be completed at the second coming.

The new covenant nation was born in a day at Pentecost. Zechariah 3:8-9

I don't think the Matthew 25 judgment of the nations is a judgment of nations as nations, but the last day general judgment of every tribe, language, people and nation.

God still though calls Israel that tern even in the NT times, and he calls the church the church!

 

[Yeshua1]

So....the nation comes out of the grave?

The nation of Israel, under messiah, would experience a spiritual rebirth!