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Spurgeon Library Conference

shodan

shodan

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I would appreciate some feedback on how others assess this response to my question at the Library Conference, here:



This quote is the context:
“We are up to the hilt advocates for peace, and we earnestly war against war. I wish that Christian men would insist more and more on the unrighteousness of war, believing that Christianity means no sword, no cannon, no bloodshed, and that, if a nation is driven to fight in its own defence, Christianity stands by to weep and to intervene as soon as possible, and not to join in the cruel shouts which celebrate an enemy’s slaughter. . . . Today, then, my brethren, I beg you to join with me in seeking renewal.”
From An All-Round Ministry, (Charles Spurgeon’s Annual Conference Addresses at the Pastors College), “A New Departure.” [SIXTEENTH ANNUAL CONFERENCE, Spring 1880]
 
KenH

KenH

Well-Known Member
If yours is the question at the 37:15 mark, I found it interesting. Personally, I mulled over the pacifism/war issue back around 1980 and never reached a conclusion on the matter. The draft was not reinstituted, not even to sign up for it, for me in my mid-20s, so I just moved on from the issue without deciding one way or the other on it.
 
shodan

shodan

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Context:
Dr. Kidd's lecture that day on Spurgeon included American slave holders response to Spurgeon's clear stand against slavery...
 
canadyjd

canadyjd

Well-Known Member
So, the issue of whether Christians should serve in the military began in the first century when Roman soldiers converted.

The first Christian emperor, Constantine, put crosses upon the shields of soldiers going into battle.

Even then, many Christians opposed any participation in violence, especially combat. It is a passivictst mindset.

There are several passages from scripture to support this view. Many use these same passages to oppose the death penalty.

I hope that is what you were asking about

peace to you
 
Deacon

Deacon

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I’ve recently moved but my last church honored its veterans.
We regularly pray for the downtrodden, persecuted and afflicted in various regions.

I am energized when I read stories of valor. Those that stand up against the evil of this world. I’m glad I never had to be tested in such a way. I wouldn’t have made a very good soldier.

Like @KenH, I missed the draft.
After the Vietnam War there was a time of about 2 years where we didn’t even have to register. I fell in that period.

To fight is part of a Christian’s character.

For our battle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the world powers of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavens.
(Ephesians 6:12 HCSB)

To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven: (Ecl. 3:1 AV 1873)

Rob
 
shodan

shodan

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Deacon said:
I’ve recently moved but my last church honored its veterans.
We regularly pray for the downtrodden, persecuted and afflicted in various regions.

I am energized when I read stories of valor. Those that stand up against the evil of this world. I’m glad I never had to be tested in such a way. I wouldn’t have made a very good soldier.

Like @KenH, I missed the draft.
After the Vietnam War there was a time of about 2 years where we didn’t even have to register. I fell in that period.

To fight is part of a Christian’s character.

For our battle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the world powers of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavens.
(Ephesians 6:12 HCSB)

To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven: (Ecl. 3:1 AV 1873)

Rob
Click to expand...


Thank you for your comment. Most churches honor veterans. I am a veteran.

The question posed in the video was about the parallel between American slave holders who protested Spurgeons clear stand against slavery by burning his sermons, and today's American evangelicals who basically block or hide Surgeon's clear words on Christians and war.
 
shodan

shodan

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Prof. Thomas Kidd, in his response, gives the example of a Baptist church during the Revolution, which said that any members who enlisted on either side of the war would be excommunicated.

To clarify, as in the initial post, "I would appreciate some feedback on how others assess this response [in the video] to my question"
 
canadyjd

canadyjd

Well-Known Member
shodan said:
Prof. Thomas Kidd, in his response, gives the example of a Baptist church during the Revolution, which said that any members who enlisted on either side of the war would be excommunicated.

To clarify, as in the initial post, "I would appreciate some feedback on how others assess this response [in the video] to my question"
Click to expand...
Local churches can disfellowship with any member, after appropriate church discipline measures, that they believe are unrepentant of sin.

If they believe it to be sinful to serve in the military where it is likely they will engage in violence and/or kill others, then they may certainly withdraw fellowship.

Let everyone follow their conscience.

peace to you
 
Deacon

Deacon

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There, you got you got another "like".

Re: "how others assess this response to my question.."
Their response was flow of thought and congenial and not as if they observed the deplorable situation - as Spurgeon himself was.
The response, (which begins to coalesce around 41:04) is appropriate:

"To read a man like Spurgeon, to read preachers and teachers of the past, stops you from being a prisoner of our cultural moment.
Because if you only read modern books, you will be as much of a prisoner of the modern age as all the authors are."​

Spurgeon was a leader, he championed the underdog, those that were oppressed, the enslaved and downtrodden.
That was a big component of his ministry, the chief motivating factor being to witness about our Savior's saving power.
He picked up where Wilberforce left off (he died about a year before Spurgeon was born).

Spurgeon preached in a post-Darwinian world where even Christian's were influenced by the "myth of progress".
His strong anti-slavery position would be an influence for the betterment of humanity.
After WWI, and certainly after WWII, the worldview shifted towards pessimism.

The old movie, "Gone With the Wind" illustrates this. In the beginning of the movie the Southern men were gung-ho about fighting for a worthy cause.
Towards the end of the war, both sides recognized the great cost the country had suffered in their fight for freedom, yet was anything really accomplished?

I'm reading a book now about the friendship between C. S. Lewis, and J. R. R. Tolkien (A Hobbit, A Wardrobe and a Great War).
For Lewis, and Tolkien, the slavery issue was predominately settled, however the role of warfare was paramount.
They were both literally in the trenches of WW1.

They experienced the horrors and degradation of warfare.
Oddly enough, they took a moderate position towards war.
The characters in their stories expressed a strong aversion to confrontation but a commitment to its necessity.

Rob
 
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