Why should I…. Then tell me whom you would consider a Hyper- Calvinist… then perhaps I could consider the very question credible enough to answer.
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Spurgeon vs Hyper-Calvinism
- Thread starter Martin Marprelate
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In his autobiography (vol.1, p. 260), Spurgeon recounts sitting, in his younger days, with some ministers and other of a Hyper persuasion, 'who were disputing whether it was a sin in men that they did not believe the Gospel. Whilst they were discussing, I said, "Gentlemen, am I in the presence of Christians? Are you believers in the Bible or are you not?" They said, "We are Christians, of course." "Then," said I, "does not the Scripture say, 'of sin, because they believe not on Me?' And is not the damning sin in men, that they do not believe on Christ?"'
In his preface to the Metropolitan Tabernacle Pulpit for 1863, he made an open appeal to those whom he described as 'led captive by ultra-calvinistic theories,' calling on them to 'preach the whole Gospel, instead of a part': 'Divine sovereignty is a great and indisputable fact, but human responsibility is quite as indisputable... Faith is God's gift, but it is also the act of renewed mankind. damnation is the result of justice, not of arbitrary predestination. Oh that the time were come when seeming opposites would be received, because faith knows that they are portions of one harmonious whole. Would that an enlarged view of the dispensations of God to man would permit men to be faithful to the human race and at the same time true to the Sovereign Lord of all.' [MTP, vol. 9, pp.vi-vii]
Spurgeon also spoke of the religion of a man who preaches divine sovereignty but neglects human responsibility: 'I believe it is a vicious, immoral and corrupt manner of setting forth doctrine, and cannot be of God' [MTP, vol. 9, p.150]
To those who rejected Christ, Spurgeon made it clear that they were doing so wilfully. 'Oh, my hearers, will any man choose for himself to be lost? Will he count himself unworthy of eternal life, and put it from him? If you will be damned you must do it yourselves. Your blood be on your own heads. Go down to the pit if you deliberately choose to do so; but this know, that Christ was preached to you and you would not have him; you were invited to come to Him, but you turned your backs on Him; you chose for yourselves your own eternal destruction! God grant that you may repent of such a choice, for Christ's sake. Amen [MTP, vol. 27, p.480]
In his preface to the Metropolitan Tabernacle Pulpit for 1863, he made an open appeal to those whom he described as 'led captive by ultra-calvinistic theories,' calling on them to 'preach the whole Gospel, instead of a part': 'Divine sovereignty is a great and indisputable fact, but human responsibility is quite as indisputable... Faith is God's gift, but it is also the act of renewed mankind. damnation is the result of justice, not of arbitrary predestination. Oh that the time were come when seeming opposites would be received, because faith knows that they are portions of one harmonious whole. Would that an enlarged view of the dispensations of God to man would permit men to be faithful to the human race and at the same time true to the Sovereign Lord of all.' [MTP, vol. 9, pp.vi-vii]
Spurgeon also spoke of the religion of a man who preaches divine sovereignty but neglects human responsibility: 'I believe it is a vicious, immoral and corrupt manner of setting forth doctrine, and cannot be of God' [MTP, vol. 9, p.150]
To those who rejected Christ, Spurgeon made it clear that they were doing so wilfully. 'Oh, my hearers, will any man choose for himself to be lost? Will he count himself unworthy of eternal life, and put it from him? If you will be damned you must do it yourselves. Your blood be on your own heads. Go down to the pit if you deliberately choose to do so; but this know, that Christ was preached to you and you would not have him; you were invited to come to Him, but you turned your backs on Him; you chose for yourselves your own eternal destruction! God grant that you may repent of such a choice, for Christ's sake. Amen [MTP, vol. 27, p.480]
Eternal Justification would be that we will be saved either here or in Heaven, as the elect are already fully justified. but those who accept Jesus now have blessings of knowing Him right now and having his blessings...
They hold that God already knows his own, so they are already sheep, regardless if they accept him or not!
Ones who support no missions, and who refuse to give the message of the gospel to all sinners?
RipponRedeaux
Well-Known Member
So what? DMLJ poured out a dozen years of his life pastoring in Wales. You feel it's right to condemn him for then ministering in London afterward? You give him a dismissive wave of your hand? You are a better man?
The good doctor left London to pastor a church in Wales, taking a 90% pay cut for the privilege.
Why do that… then I loose all respect for him. That wasn’t smart
They didn’t pay him that much in Wales did they?
Yes, I wouldn’t abandon my people esp for limies
He must have been looking for notoriety… probably to sell books.
Besides Whitefield traveled to America mostly from area to area on horseback… he had the fervor, the passion, the empathy and the spirit dwelled within the man. Even though he was a Brit, he went to Wales and brought the word to many. This Limey was surely inspired by the Spirit.
Why did he go to London in the 1st place?
RipponRedeaux
Well-Known Member
I used to own the two volume set by Iain Murray. But I have only the second volume now. I received it Jan. of 1993. In the first volume it gives the details. I think DMLJ was being, for want of a better expression --scouted. Campbell Morgan was getting old and he wanted a capable, younger man to assist and possibly succeed him in the pulpit. CM was a pronounced Arminian and MLJ was a Calvinist, but they got along. CM died and DLJ became the Senior minister of Westminster Chapel.
DMJ while ministering in Wales had no thought of leaving the church he was pastoring. He had no ambition along those lines.
Must all Welsmen be miners to earn your respect.? Can't men be doctors, as he originally was? Can they be ministers of the Gpospel? Or is that not good enough for you?
RipponRedeaux
Well-Known Member
The above is unadulterated stupidity on your part EW&F.
And so, and then if God is sovereign, what need he of mans choice…. He can make rocks to worship him.
Ahhh, you don’t love me. I’m so crushed. I shan’t sleep a wink knowing that you have a low opinion of me.. tisk tisk tisk.
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All Welsh must… I emphasize must be miners, related to and or come from miners, or have empathy for those who worked in the mines in order to be truly Welsh… it’s in the blood and in the soul. We are a nation of laborers and are proud of that distinction and I (like my father, grand father , great grandfather) will never let/allow my children & grandchildren to forget that distinction. We also teach the language in schools and churches … it can never be overtaken by any bastard Sais language. Celtic, work ethic, and dedication to things uniquely Welsh…. My only jealously is not making Scotch as well as the Scots…. Well they have their speciality and we have ours. And the Swiss make the best chocolate and the best watches. So be it!
RipponRedeaux
Well-Known Member
You got me. You got me good.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
Because GOD told him to!!!
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