'St. Jack' and the Bullies in the Pulpit

You have no case...but I agree that you should give it a rest.

Joseph Botwinick

 

Whatever, Joseph.....

 

What about those American citizens who are Jewish, Muslim, Hindu/Jain/Sikh, Hari Krishna?
What about the athiests and agnostics? How about the Deists? What about the Unitarian Universalists?
</font>[/QUOTE]What about them?

Joseph Botwinick

 

That is by far the most un-American thing I can recall seeing posted to this board! Those people to whom I referred, and who you have called "cults" are AMERICANS!! They are just as AMERICAN as you are. They have the same freedom of religion (and freedom from religion) as you do. Members of these cults (BTW, I did not realize that Judiasm is a cult) are serving our country protecting us so that you can make such opprobrious statements as these.

Religious freedom is for all Americans, regardless of whether or not you agree with them.
</font>[/QUOTE]1. I find nothing unAmerican about this statement.

2. Yes they are Americans. Many of them are great patriotic Americans. And yes, if they reject Christ, they are members of false religions, which is also one of the prominent definitions of a cult:

Cult

3. Yes, modern day Judaism is a false religion, and by the above definition is also a cult, since they reject Christ.

4. Yes they have the same freedom of religion that everyone has. Of course, nobody said they didn't. That was just another of your silly, senseless rants meant to belittle and demonize conservative Christians.

Joseph Botwinick

 

How telling.......
So, religious freedom only applies to like-minded people? Am I understanding you on this point?

I am still intrigued by the idea that Judiasm is a cult. I have never heard anyone seemingly make this observation.</font>[/QUOTE]Of course you are not understanding him at all. He stated nothing about the religious freedom of others one way or the other. All he said was as a Christian, he is not in the business of promoting false religions, which modern day Judaism is one. You are twisting and perverting his words beyond belief, which is normal for you.

Joseph Botwinick

 

Thanks for you input, Joseph.
I appreciate your insight, despite the fact that those comments were directed at someone else. I am flattered that you would take the time to respond to comments not directed at you.

 

And the Spirit will never lead you to contradict scripture, and since abortion is condemned in scripture, you must vote against anyone that supports a pro-abortion platform in order to call yourself "spirit-led"

Or are you pro-choice? </font>[/QUOTE]I am pro-life, which is why I have never been involved in an abortion, have never performed an abortion, or encouraged someone to have an abortion. But that is my opinion, my belief and my conviction.

HOWEVER, if the abortion in question is not one in which I have a direct involvement, then I am pro-choice, as it is between that person and their particular god. I cannot stand accountable for their actions. Abortion is the law of the land, and it is their right to make that choice.

Regards,
BiR

 

What about those American citizens who are Jewish, Muslim, Hindu/Jain/Sikh, Hari Krishna?
What about the athiests and agnostics? How about the Deists? What about the Unitarian Universalists?
</font>[/QUOTE]What about them?</font>[/QUOTE]Well, since you decided to respond to comments not directed at you:

Shouldn't we place the Star of David, and/or the crescent moon along side the crosses to which hillclimber referred? Shouldn't we place the Hindu symbols with these as well? How about wiccan symbols? After all, if we are going to have religious symbols, shouldn't we place them all side by side?

Interesting: I have never heard anyone make this assertion before the two of you.

So, are we going to place their religious symbols on government buildings and courtrooms?

I did neither, and once again, you feel compelled to call me "silly" because I do not share your particular beliefs with respect to these topics. Your comments are seemingly indicative of the very subject discussed in the article about Danforth.

If religious freedom applies to one, then it applies to all. I am not referring to the promotion of the "false religions," I am referring to the defense of their right to practice that religion. Read those comments again.

Nice try......

 

And the Spirit will never lead you to contradict scripture, and since abortion is condemned in scripture, you must vote against anyone that supports a pro-abortion platform in order to call yourself "spirit-led"

Or are you pro-choice? </font>[/QUOTE]I am pro-life, which is why I have never been involved in an abortion, have never performed an abortion, or encouraged someone to have an abortion. But that is my opinion, my belief and my conviction.

HOWEVER, if the abortion in question is not one in which I have a direct involvement, then I am pro-choice, as it is between that person and their particular god. I cannot stand accountable for their actions. Abortion is the law of the land, and it is their right to make that choice.

Regards,
BiR </font>[/QUOTE]IOW,

As long as I am not the one committing the murder, no problem. It is their choice to murder their baby. Andrea Yates should be pretty pleased to hear that.

Joseph Botwinick

 

What about those American citizens who are Jewish, Muslim, Hindu/Jain/Sikh, Hari Krishna?
What about the athiests and agnostics? How about the Deists? What about the Unitarian Universalists?
</font>[/QUOTE]What about them?</font>[/QUOTE]Well, since you decided to respond to comments not directed at you:

Shouldn't we place the Star of David, and/or the crescent moon along side the crosses to which hillclimber referred? Shouldn't we place the Hindu symbols with these as well? How about wiccan symbols? After all, if we are going to have religious symbols, shouldn't we place them all side by side?</font>[/QUOTE]Absolutely. If a person is Jewish, let them put a magen david on their tombs if they wish. If they are Muslim, they can put a crescent moon or whatever they wish on their own grave stone. If they are hindu, they could put a picture of who they have been in their past lifes and who they think they will be in the next life. If they are atheists, I guess they could put a picture of...well...I am at a loss as to what they would want on their tombstone...maybe a picture of a tree to represent mother earth in place of any deity? Doesn't matter to me what they put on their grave. It is their grave. One of my wife's aunts passed away a few years ago and she was one of those old time Democrats who still voted thus even though, admittedly, the party didn't represent most of her values. She had a picture of a donkey bucking and grinning on the back of her gravestone. Most of us, even the Democrats, in the family, thought it was rather funny, but nobody even thought about changing it. It was her gravestone afterall and whatever she wanted on it was fine with us.

Interesting: I have never heard anyone make this assertion before the two of you.[/QUOTE]

Well, now you have met two of us.

So, are we going to place their religious symbols on government buildings and courtrooms?[/QUOTE]

If a community is mostly Jewish, let them as a community decide what religious symbols they want in their courtroom. But, that is just my opinion. So now, are you equally as willing to allow a Christian community to put their religious symbols up in a courtroom and on government buldings?

I did neither, and once again, you feel compelled to call me "silly" because I do not share your particular beliefs with respect to these topics. Your comments are seemingly indicative of the very subject discussed in the article about Danforth.[/QUOTE]

You did both, just like you always do.

If religious freedom applies to one, then it applies to all. I am not referring to the promotion of the "false religions," I am referring to the defense of their right to practice that religion. Read those comments again. [/QUOTE]

There was no real reason except to be inflammatory for you to even question whether or not he supported freedom of religion for them since that was not part of the conversation. I guess you assume that since we are conservative that we don't support religious freedom for all. That is just silly. But, that is pretty par for the course with you.

Joseph Botwinick

 

And the Spirit will never lead you to contradict scripture, and since abortion is condemned in scripture, you must vote against anyone that supports a pro-abortion platform in order to call yourself "spirit-led"

Or are you pro-choice? </font>[/QUOTE]I am pro-life, which is why I have never been involved in an abortion, have never performed an abortion, or encouraged someone to have an abortion. But that is my opinion, my belief and my conviction.

HOWEVER, if the abortion in question is not one in which I have a direct involvement, then I am pro-choice, as it is between that person and their particular god. I cannot stand accountable for their actions. Abortion is the law of the land, and it is their right to make that choice.

Regards,
BiR </font>[/QUOTE]What about pedophiles, or those that have the baby then dump them in the trash cans? If that became the law of the land, would you support their rights?

Just because something is the law does not make it right when we have a higher moral law.

In America, we still have a voice on the laws that govern us. And laws that are ungodly, we have duty to try and change them..

If we don't we will answer to God..
To whom much is given, much is required.

We have the awesome privelege to live in USA,
We also have the responsiblity to make sure our laws reflect Gods laws.

It doesn't matter what others believe or what "god" they serve, unless they know Jesus as savior they will go to Hell.

Abortion is murder.. There is no way around it.

Murder is sin...
To support murder (abortion) is a sin
Those who support those that support abortions (even by your vote) are sinning.

I honestly cannot see how Christians can go to church on Sunday, praise God for what He has done in their lives, and then vote on Tuesday for people that support the idea that it is OK to kill babies.

But they exist everywhere..

 

amen

 

we need more people getting involved politically
please share this site

centerformoralclarity.net


also go to public meetings and express your concerns on the issue of abortion use your
freedom of expression and your rights as an
american get involved

 

Wow: you take polarization to a new level with this comment.

No, "politically minded 'Believers'" should pray about the issue, and vote how the Spirit leads. Again, you take polarization to a new level with this post.

Comments like this are starting to make me think that your Christianity is subordinate to your Republicanism. Again, you take polarization to a new level with this post.

That is by far the most un-American thing I can recall seeing posted to this board! Those people to whom I referred, and who you have called "cults" are AMERICANS!! They are just as AMERICAN as you are. They have the same freedom of religion (and freedom from religion) as you do. Members of these cults (BTW, I did not realize that Judiasm is a cult) are serving our country protecting us so that you can make such opprobrious statements as these.

Religious freedom is for all Americans, regardless of whether or not you agree with them.

And yet, in another discussion in this forum, it was noted that Dr. Dobson "has abandoned his pledge to never again vote for a politician willing to kill a single innocent child." I can see why you think "he fights the good fight."

IS IT ANY WONDER, WHEN YOU MAKE STATEMENTS LIKE THESE?

You have successfully supplanted my previous pick as the most polarized person on the board.
Congrats, as that was a tough thing to do......

BiR </font>[/QUOTE]I wish I had the power to be a polarizer BIR, as that would demonstrate my grandness. Gee I really don't see a thing wrong with these statements if taken the way I meant them. Cults are filled with people searching for Christ in the wrong places. We all have in us, a longing for knowledge of the Creator, IMHO, but few want to look in the right place. You can fight for their right to exist and proselytize, I'll not, my fight is for the Lord, ONLY.
quote by hillclimber:
About the cults, I have absolutely no interest in their protection or dissolution, and society isn't after them anyway, only Christ's followers.

quote by BIR:
That is by far the most un-American thing I can recall seeing posted to this board! Those people to whom I referred, and who you have called "cults" are AMERICANS!! They are just as AMERICAN as you are. They have the same freedom of religion (and freedom from religion) as you do. Members of these cults (BTW, I did not realize that Judiasm is a cult) are serving our country protecting us so that you can make such opprobrious statements as these.

Well I didn't mention Judiasm, as a cult. But they are not believers in Christ. Nice word opprobrious, and new to me. As for those other religions, one of them (JDubs) has captured my mother-in-law once removed and I hate that. She,now 99 years old, was the replacement for my wifes wonderful mother who died of cancer many years ago.

Religious freedom is for all Americans, regardless of whether or not you agree with them.

That's the mantra, and I am tolerant, barely

 

What about pedophiles, or those that have the baby then dump them in the trash cans? If that became the law of the land, would you support their rights?

Just because something is the law does not make it right when we have a higher moral law.

In America, we still have a voice on the laws that govern us. And laws that are ungodly, we have duty to try and change them..

If we don't we will answer to God..
To whom much is given, much is required.

We have the awesome privelege to live in USA,
We also have the responsiblity to make sure our laws reflect Gods laws.

It doesn't matter what others believe or what "god" they serve, unless they know Jesus as savior they will go to Hell.

Abortion is murder.. There is no way around it.

Murder is sin...
To support murder (abortion) is a sin
Those who support those that support abortions (even by your vote) are sinning.

I honestly cannot see how Christians can go to church on Sunday, praise God for what He has done in their lives, and then vote on Tuesday for people that support the idea that it is OK to kill babies.

But they exist everywhere..

Excellent response TT

 

There are certainly a lot of misguided "Christians" deceived by Satan posting on this board. We need to pray for these brothers and sisters, let's try to refrain from "anger" type of language we use here.

As one bumper sticker said: "You can't be both Christian and Pro-Choice". We need to pray for those "Christians" who have fallen from the Lord and are being deceived by Satan and post-modern soceity.

Of course I doubt one's Christianity when they say they are pro-choice, but I don't know their hearts. Only God does. We need revival within the church!

 

The abortion issue is only one Blackhawkk, there are many deceived in many areas on this board, which is a Baptist Board in name only. Most are not Baptists, or at least a large percentage are not.
Most treat The President of the United States, who is an admitted, unashamed believer in Jesus Christ, like he was the worse president to ever occupy the White House, and someone even called him the Anti-Christ. History is going to show him to have been among the best ever. IMO The Christian viewpoints are the minority on here.