In Matthew 11:10 John the Baptist is referred to as a messenger, the greek word being angelos or angel. Further, what we have in Revelation 1-3 is an angel of God giving John a vision to deliver to the churches via the "angel" of the church. It makes no sense that God gives John a message to deliver to an heavenly angel to deliver to the church. It is clear that the angel (messenger) is the pastor of the church. This is not a new way of describing men who deliver God's message, in scripture.
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Stars are angels
- Thread starter rlvaughn
- Start date
I just answered that
Revelatgion 10 refers to the reformation. After the reformation the reformers looked back to see if there were any that tollowed their teaching. At the Diet of Worms, Luther was accused of being a Hussite, which he denied, but then thought he knew nothing about Huss. He went to the university library and read up on Huss. The next day he announced that he was indeed a Hussite. Later he excommnicated the Pape, thus casting out the outer court. The two witnesses represent the church in its reduced state in the years before the reformation. Eventually the Hussites and Waldenses were wiped out 3½ years,or prophetic days before the reformation, the delegates at the papal council celebrated and exchanged gifts the pope giving the king of spain the prized golden egg. Christs witnesses were dead. The ppope later said tghe heretics had come alive in Luther.
Last edited:
David, I am not sure you believe what you post., In the dream, those stars do represent Humans, But in Daniel , in a vision both reference angels as stars both fallen and unfallen angels. They only difference is sin. Daniel 12:3 shows the different ends to believers and non believers.
The attitudes of the believers will be as the unfallen angels
Dan 12:2
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Dan 12:3
And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.
Humanity is the methods God saves eternal beings that are sinners
Stars that are" heavenly lights" cannot represent sinful beings
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
FINALLY, someone comes up with beginning an effort to Interpret Matthew 24:29;
29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
Well, I don't see anything at all about Creation Ending or The Final Judgment, in Matthew 24:29, but I do see 'stars'.
Absolutely. The heavenly bodies refer to the leaders of the Jews who fell in the Roman war.
I think there is a much bigger thought,
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
That is nice, however, it may be a source of extremely sharp misunderstanding.
Just exactly what you are saying can throw off what I believe God would have us to understand, there.
I can not be sure what else David Kent sees in the rest of the chapter, but rest assured that I see The Consummation of The Age and The One and Only Second Coming of Jesus, in Judgement, IN THE CHAPTER, but NOT IN THESE VERSES.
It is astounding the percentage of commentators and teachers and most people that have not arrived at the 'dividing' of these Words of Jesus that I will say, but I believe they stand up to "rightly dividing" them.
99.999% is the approximate percentage of anyone, anywhere, that DO Not divide them like this:
Matthew 24: 4-14:
Jesus Answers the Disciples question in verse 3b, (first question)
"Tell us, when shall these things be?
(Jesus Answers regarding the Period of Time, PRIOR, to A. D. 70 and the Distruction of The Temple He had just mentioned.)
...
Matthew 24:15-35:
Jesus Answers the Disciples question in verse 3b (second question)
"... and what shall be the sign of thy coming,... ?
(Jesus Answers concerning His" Coming" in Providential Judgment,
[ in Permitting The Roman Army (the eagles) to distroy The Temple and Jewish Economy of Temple Worship, there (the carcuse)]
that He and Daniel call, "The Abomination of Desolation")
...
Matthew 24:36-51:
Jesus Answers the Disciples question in verse 3b: (third question)
"... and what shall be the sign......
of the end of the world?"
( Jesus Explains The Consummation of The Age and The One and Only Second Coming of Jesus, in Final Judgement).
It is all in there. Just like that.
Let it be in there. And it is.
...
Van started us a 'list of Hermenutical Principals' on that thread.
One that I know that pertains perfectly to dividing the chapter this way is a 'Hermenutical Principal' called,
"it fits like a hand in a glove", within each verse, the chapter, the Book of Matthew, and the rest of the Bible,
perticularly, two other 'extremely difficult' Passages for Most INDIVIDUALS, from Daniel 7 & 9, and Revelation.
David Kent gave you as Fantastic hint toward unraveling the Message from God, in Matthew 24, if you don't allow your 'thinking' to overwhelm that hint and next to BE SURE to make the correct turn and right division at Matthew 24:36.
This will allow the Hermenutical Principal of One Interpretation for each Passage in The Bible, i. e., no such thing as 'double interpretation', or 'double fulfillment of prophecy', etc.
Again, try not to 'think' you see 'more', or 'anything' in any of them, if it can be better to see something else Jesus is actually Saying.
"I think that I think I see more..." etc., could be the death nail to The Divine Interpretation.
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
Yep, "stars".
That's not from your or my thinking, or David's, but that is A Bible Interpretation.
The Bible and, therefore, Jesus refer to "stars" as individuals in authority.
Think of Joseph's dream.
Jesus Knows His Bible.
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
are you Yea or Nay? Alan. I have a hard time with conversation without seeing facial expressions
Mat 5:37
But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
Do you actually read the bible?
Jesus was asked when will these things be. That was the temple being destroyed. He said that would be when Jerusalem would be surrounded by armies. That was when they saw armies surrounding Jerasalem its desolation would be nigh. (Luke) Matthew and Mark tell us this was the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel.
Matthew asks a suplementary question. What will be the sign of your coming and the end of the world? Jesus answered:
- 36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
David, The question of Verse 1 and 2 pertaining to the temple was added to on verse 3 the
Mat 24:3
And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Which Jesus answered after answering about the temple,
after the Tribulation at Second Coming, the physical will be shaken, sun, moon stars, powers of heaven, instead of the Jewish rulers removed
Mat 24:29¶
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory
Again I ask "Do you actually read the bible. ?" The narative is continuous. The destuction of the temole my the armies surroundind Jeruasalem, during the siege there was great tribulation, and the ruling powers fell, sybolised my the heavenly bodies as in Joseph's dream. His brothers and Jacob recognised the symbols straight away..