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Stealing
- Thread starter Alcott
- Start date
Dave G
Well-Known Member
I voted for all except # 2 and # 4.
# 2, borrowing something from a neighbor and not bringing it back promptly could perhaps be worded a bit differently...
Perhaps the person forgot, or was called out of town before they could bring it back.
If the person never intended to keep it, then to me it's not stealing, it is borrowing.
As for # 4,
I don't agree with nor would I ever teach tithing as binding on the New Testament believer, as we are under the terms of 2 Corinthians 9 and not under a mandatory tenth ( tax ) for giving.
That's why it's called "giving" and not "taxing", because it is not coerced in any way.
The Lord loves a cheerful giver,
and gifts are freely given and freely received.
# 2, borrowing something from a neighbor and not bringing it back promptly could perhaps be worded a bit differently...
Perhaps the person forgot, or was called out of town before they could bring it back.
If the person never intended to keep it, then to me it's not stealing, it is borrowing.
As for # 4,
I don't agree with nor would I ever teach tithing as binding on the New Testament believer, as we are under the terms of 2 Corinthians 9 and not under a mandatory tenth ( tax ) for giving.
That's why it's called "giving" and not "taxing", because it is not coerced in any way.
The Lord loves a cheerful giver,
and gifts are freely given and freely received.
Mikey
Active Member
Good thread, been thinking about this too.
This is one thing that led to this poll. I asked for some pepper with my DQ lunch deal, chicken strips, but I do not use ketchup with these. They do not want to take them back and possibly re-serve them these days. So this is not stealing. But in a situation where they are not served, but available for one to grab many more than needed there, I think doing so would be.Interesting questions. Only a few would I think of as stealing, while some I would think of as wrong, but for a different reason. And maybe in some cases I may not understand the concept you are getting at. I will add some discussion of some that are not straightforward to me.
If the neighbor said you could use it, then you have not stolen. Failing to bring it back promptly could be a product of forgetfulness or negligence, but does not rise to the level of stealing -- unless the person deliberately does not intend to take it back in order to make it his or her own.
No stealing there that I can see. If the city places a parking meter that charges by time, then they are getting paid for the time, regardless of whether it was the previous or current person's money. Someone who habitually drives around looking for "enough time left" is probably guilty as a sin such of stinginess, love or money, or something like that, though.
Tithing is Old Testament law and we are not under the law. 100% of what we own belongs to God, and very likely most of us sin in one way or another in how we serve as stewards of what God gives us.
I was not sure I understood the difference you were making, until your post #5. Yes, just grabbing up condiments from a bucket or something like that just to take home would be wrong. I believe that not only now, but always in the past, the individually packaged condiments they brought to the table and given the customer belonged to the customer (iow, not bottles of Ketchup and Tabasco, but packets of salt, pepper, etc.). There is much more awareness now, probably, of not reusing stuff that has been on someone else's table.
I think this would vary according to the agreement that the mower has with the owner. For example, is the person charging a set fee to mow the yard, or is the person paid by the hour? If the latter, if they actually worked X hours and were paid for X hours, stealing would not come into play. If you are mow someone's yard for $100, get paid $100, but did not actually finish the job, then you are cheating the owner. In the other case (by the hour), perhaps just a slipshod job, but not actually stealing. If you mowed 5 hours and charged for 6 that would be cheating.
We regularly invite people who have not furnished anything to partake with us at church eatings, singings, cemetery dinners on the ground, etc., with no expectation that they should bring something. Maybe I do not understand your meaning.
Not sure I understand this one either. What would one be stealing? I think it could be lying or breaking a promise, but not sure how it would be stealing.
Partaking of a group's "potluck" meal without furnishing any part of it
I suppose this would come down to a bi-level issue. Certainly we like to invite and encourage people to join in if they are visitors, or members who knew nothing about the meal, or who are facing hard times or were just pressed for time, or have a lot of kids or ... But if someone who shows up for a lot of these and never brings anything, that's really the type of person I had in mind. I really think most of us, instead of considering such a person a moocher, would think more about the enjoyment he or she is missing by not being a provider.
Delaying calling someone with relevant news you said you would share when you found out
It's a fairly new thing for the intangible to be considered "stolen," as opposed to withheld, invaded, or misused, although defrauding information has long been prosecuted as a method of abetting of a theft. I do remember a day in Vacation Bible School once when the teacher wrote a question on the blackboard: "Are you a robber?" I don't remember if it referred to the tithe and Malachi 3-- in those days it likely did-- but I do remember her saying you are a robber if you do things like whisper or make faces in church, because you're robbing someone of giving their full attention to the sermon or their own consideration of what is going on. She probably said the same thing about making jokes or giggling in Sunday School.
But in the case I mentioned, consider it in light of something I remember doing once and having second thoughts about the morals of it. I was working a security job, as a part timer then, and I knew that meant I would occasionally get calls to work a shift where someone had called off. We had no cell phones and call notes and texting then, but we did have answering machines for our phones. I got one of those messages on a day I did not want to go in to work-- I think it was just laziness on my part-- so I let an hour pass after hearing the message before I called back, and expectedly the supervisor said that post had already been filled. So I pleased myself for that day, but maybe whoever did go in to work also did not want to go, perhaps with a better reason that I had; and it was likely, I'm sure, that the person being relieved had to stay over some time, and may have had other responsibilities to attend. I didn't know any of these things, but I may have stolen (?) someone's time that was needed more than mine, because I was available.
Or think of the case as a minor league soap opera... 2 women are interested in the same man, who does prefer one over the other, but does not want to 'hurt the feelings' of the other. The one he does not prefer invites him for a picnic in the park, and he says he will let her know if he will be free that day. Actually he is waiting to find out if the woman he prefers is available to do something with him that day. He eventually finds out the one he prefers is available and wants to be with him, so he calls the other and says he will be busy at that time, so perhaps they can have their picnic another day. Is he "stealing" knowledge she should have, that she is not his first choice, and that she may be wasting her time and interest thinking about him?
I suppose this would come down to a bi-level issue. Certainly we like to invite and encourage people to join in if they are visitors, or members who knew nothing about the meal, or who are facing hard times or were just pressed for time, or have a lot of kids or ... But if someone who shows up for a lot of these and never brings anything, that's really the type of person I had in mind. I really think most of us, instead of considering such a person a moocher, would think more about the enjoyment he or she is missing by not being a provider.
Delaying calling someone with relevant news you said you would share when you found out
It's a fairly new thing for the intangible to be considered "stolen," as opposed to withheld, invaded, or misused, although defrauding information has long been prosecuted as a method of abetting of a theft. I do remember a day in Vacation Bible School once when the teacher wrote a question on the blackboard: "Are you a robber?" I don't remember if it referred to the tithe and Malachi 3-- in those days it likely did-- but I do remember her saying you are a robber if you do things like whisper or make faces in church, because you're robbing someone of giving their full attention to the sermon or their own consideration of what is going on. She probably said the same thing about making jokes or giggling in Sunday School.
But in the case I mentioned, consider it in light of something I remember doing once and having second thoughts about the morals of it. I was working a security job, as a part timer then, and I knew that meant I would occasionally get calls to work a shift where someone had called off. We had no cell phones and call notes and texting then, but we did have answering machines for our phones. I got one of those messages on a day I did not want to go in to work-- I think it was just laziness on my part-- so I let an hour pass after hearing the message before I called back, and expectedly the supervisor said that post had already been filled. So I pleased myself for that day, but maybe whoever did go in to work also did not want to go, perhaps with a better reason that I had; and it was likely, I'm sure, that the person being relieved had to stay over some time, and may have had other responsibilities to attend. I didn't know any of these things, but I may have stolen (?) someone's time that was needed more than mine, because I was available.
Or think of the case as a minor league soap opera... 2 women are interested in the same man, who does prefer one over the other, but does not want to 'hurt the feelings' of the other. The one he does not prefer invites him for a picnic in the park, and he says he will let her know if he will be free that day. Actually he is waiting to find out if the woman he prefers is available to do something with him that day. He eventually finds out the one he prefers is available and wants to be with him, so he calls the other and says he will be busy at that time, so perhaps they can have their picnic another day. Is he "stealing" knowledge she should have, that she is not his first choice, and that she may be wasting her time and interest thinking about him?