Still tithing?

[Bro. Williams]

There are numerous passages in the NT about meeting the needs of the brethren, communicating gifts and funds, supporting preachers and other churches, etc.

For someone to attend a church and leach off what the other members willingly sacrifice in order to keep the local church operating, is appalling. BUT, there are plenty of scum in our churches this day who only know how to leach. There are those that leach in regards to the $$, those that leach in regards to the work, those that leach in regards to Biblical study, those that leach in regards to prayer, etc. ; always willing to get a blessing and a crown, seldom willing to bear the burden or the cross.

 

[AF Guy N Paradise]

Man, if I was to quit tithing and instead put that money towards my debt, I could be debt free in no time.

However, I want to tithe and God and His work should be everyone's #1 priority. Anyway, 100% of everything belongs to God.

 

[Brother Bob]

Mar 10:19Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.


Jhn 14:26But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

If the Commandments had no meaning after the cross, I wonder why the Holy Ghost is going to bring them to our remembrance??

Does that mean that all that Jesus said was under the Law and therefore has no meaning to us. What about His death, it no doubt was under the Law also?

 

[faithgirl46]

Tom,

Nope. The Law was in force till it was nailed to the cross. Jesus was bound by the Mosaic covenant, and tithing is essentially a part of the Mosaic law.

Believers are to give regularly, sacrificially, and proportionally. No command after the cross for believer to tithe. Nor is there an example of believers tithing after the cross.

Abraham paid tithes to Melchisadek one time and that only on the spoils of battle. This is not a pattern for church age giving.

:tonofbricks: :tonofbricks: I do not understand what you a saying. Do you mean that we are not required to tithe? That makes no sense.
Faithgirl

 

[pinoybaptist]

:tonofbricks: :tonofbricks: I do not understand what you a saying. Do you mean that we are not required to tithe? That makes no sense.
Faithgirl

Yes, faithgirl46. I wish there was a smilie of something with a roof so I can stop those bricks from burying you.

It means we are not required to tithe.

Tithing is an old testament practice, intended for the Jews, who lived in an agricultural context (so you also have the firstfruits offering).

In the New Testament where grace, and not the law, rules, we give "according as God hath prospered us", and we give as "cheerful givers". which if applied properly, means we give more than a tenth of whatever we earned, not out of a feeling of obligation, but because we love the Lord, His vineyard, and His laborers.

 

[Alex Quackenbush]

What of the words of Jesus in Matthew 23.23 (emphasis mine)?

"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone."​

He was of course speaking to whom? Men under the Mosaic Covenant and requirements.

 

[SBCPreacher]

To answer the original post - yes, absolutely!

I've often heard this reasoning from people who just didn't want to give and used it as their excuse. God will never honor disobedience.

 

[Alcott]

Man, if I was to quit tithing and instead put that money towards my debt, I could be debt free in no time.

However, I want to tithe and God and His work should be everyone's #1 priority. Anyway, 100% of everything belongs to God.

So you wish to be disobedient to the command to "owe no man anything"?

 

[Ivon Denosovich]

Bro. Williams, in principle I agree with you. Thanks for the compelling insight.

I'm assuming that you didn't quit giving, although I see you have no home church to give to by your profile.

Unfotunately, no, I don't currently have one. I just moved to a new area and I'm "trying out" a couple.

How do you decide what to give? Is there some sort of formula? The more you have the more you give, and vice versa? Or is it based on a feeling? Or what?

Yes. And no. Actually, I decide based on a compilation of things: disposable income present, feelings, urgency of need, etc. In other words, it's like when I discriminate against which missionaries to support. (Since I'm assuming ALL of us have to do this.) How do you pick who gets help and who doesn't? While I would like to pretend the process is as scientific as, say, an equation, it just isn't. My finite resources demand that I do discriminate at some point and I pretty much strike up a compromise between all factors at hand. Again, not nearly as cut-and-dry as tithing, I know. But for me (at least) it's a more human way of giving. Operative phrase being, "for me."

Where is your giving in your priority list. First thing, or whatever's left after the bills are paid?

I respect where you're coming from here. I admire your heart to keep God's things just that. But I equate (and I think with ample more Scriptural evidence) that paying one's bills is one of the most spiritual means of spending money. So it isn't like I believe God expects me to choose between doing right vs. doing right. Again, I admire your love for God. It's warming.

Is it possible to give nothing (even though you're able) and still be pleasing to God? Is it possible to please God with your giving, but gradually reduce giving to the point where God is no longer pleased? If yes, where do you think that point is?

I think it is possible to displease God with our giving. And with our prayer life. But I don't think prayer should be viewed as a timed quota. I also think I can disappoint God with my Bible reading but I'm still not comfortable making that a rigidly structured process either. Pardon the redundant, sappy phraseology but it's a relationship thang.

If you joined a local civic club,would you have the same attitude toward the mandatory dues as you have toward the tithe?

<bolding mine> I don't feel tithing is mandatory. But, no, I would not balk at mandatory dues if I knowingly incurred them.

These questions may sound antagonistic.

I haven't interpreted anything you said as antagonistic. I see someone who sincerely loves the Lord and sincerely disagrees. No need for the disclaimer and by all means keep the dialogue coming!

Just wanted to make sure where your heart is in this matter.

Thank you.

 

[Ivon Denosovich]

To answer the original post - yes, absolutely!

I've often heard this reasoning from people who just didn't want to give and used it as their excuse. God will never honor disobedience.

Good point about this being an excuse for some. I agree. But isn't that always the risk we run with grace?

 

[Ivon Denosovich]

Ivan,

When you say that, what do you mean by that? Are you referring to the civil and ceremonial law, or also the moral law of God?

Both. Since disobeying a ceremonial law is tantamount to being in sin. *I see no way of separating obedience from morality* But the moral law, being timeless, was fully canonized into NT "law."

 

[Tom Butler]

Actually, I decide based on a compilation of things: disposable income present, feelings, urgency of need, etc. In other words, it's like when I discriminate against which missionaries to support. (Since I'm assuming ALL of us have to do this.) How do you pick who gets help and who doesn't? While I would like to pretend the process is as scientific as, say, an equation, it just isn't. My finite resources demand that I do discriminate at some point and I pretty much strike up a compromise between all factors at hand. Again, not nearly as cut-and-dry as tithing, I know. But for me (at least) it's a more human way of giving. Operative phrase being, "for me.

Thanks for your answers. They are reasoned and given in a good spirit.

 

[Ivon Denosovich]

Tom Butler, since I'm assuming you do believe in tithing, what do you feel about the promise of God's blessing/curse?

 

[Tom Butler]

Ivon, I take it you mean that if you tithe, God will bless you, and if not, he won't.

Well, Malachi made that connection. My own thought is that God is always pleased with obedience, and displeased with disobedience. The entire company of OT prophets preached the same thing to Israel and Judah: repent of your rebellion and God will bless, otherwise he will punish.

In other places, God promises blessings unilaterally to his children.

Now I do know people who say they are going to tithe not only because they should, but believe that if they with-hold it, God will take it from them in a way they really won't like. There is a part of me that thinks that, too.

And in my life I have received manifold blessings from God. Because I tithe? Maybe, maybe not. Maybe it's just God being merciful to one who manages to displease God fairly regularly.

I've been a little wishy-washy in answering your question because I want to avoid the tithing cliches.

 

[Alcott]

Now I do know people who say they are going to tithe not only because they should, but believe that if they with-hold it, God will take it from them in a way they really won't like. There is a part of me that thinks that, too.

That's absurd. Do you really not know of any Christian who failed to tithe for months, years, decades? How did God squeeze it out of them against their will? And do you know of Christians who did faithfully tithe and met with as many or more problems in finances, health and safety as the ones who didn't?

 

[TCGreek]

1. Why in the bright light of the NT can't we find a direct command to tithe?

2. Why are the book of Acts and the epistles so silent on the matter?

3. And the only mention of Tithing is in Hebrews, but within a historical setting to make a point about the superiority of Jesus' high priesthood. Why?

 

[Tom Butler]

That's absurd. Do you really not know of any Christian who failed to tithe for months, years, decades? How did God squeeze it out of them against their will? And do you know of Christians who did faithfully tithe and met with as many or more problems in finances, health and safety as the ones who didn't?

I know. But you will not convince them that it's absurd. They will cite instances where they didn't tithe faithfully, and they had unexpected medical bills, unexpected repair bills, that sort of thing. They never got to spend that money as they planned. On the ther hand, many tithers will testify that their money goes further now than it did when they didn't tithe.

Yet, I dont' know a single tither who will say they tithe in order to claim the promises of great blessings cited in Malachi 3:10.

I know, anecdotal evidence must be evaluated in light of scripture. Actually, that's exactly what they're doing. They're measuring their experience in light of Malachi 3:10 and it seems to fit.

Are there faithful tithers wh have financial and/or health problems? Yep. Are there non-givers who prosper? Yep. Can I explain the apparent inconsistency? Nope.

 

[AAA]

Greetings,

I'm a former life long independent Baptist who recently quit tithing. (As a disclaimer, I'm not advocating anyone should join me, nor am I seeking to belittle anyone's beliefs who disagrees.) But after sixteen years of mindless (describing myself not others) contributions I finally worked up enough gumption to read the Scriptures for myself and came to the conclusion:

1) The Law in its entirety was done away with.

2) For tithing to be mandatory it would have to be reinstituted in the NT which it isn't.

3) The only account I can find of tithing in the NT is an indirect reference from Christ, which would have been appropriate for Him to tithe since He was sent to fulfill the law and the prophets. (I also assume he subscribed to Levitical eating habits.)

4) The curse that had previously petrified me is irrelevant since I am not the nation of Israel. This makes the blessing irrelevant as well.

5) Pragmatism warning! Not explicitly theological! Since I've quit tithing several months ago I have not incurred any major expenses and I still enjoy my life. As far as I can tell I don't love God or my fellow man any less. Also, now when I give it's because I feel compelled to do so, which I think is in keeping with the spirit of the NT and especially Galations.

Thoughts?

This has been the topic of conversation between my wife and I for the past 6-12 months and I have to agree with you on this one point: Tithe is part of the OT, not the NT command for believers today: but I still give 10% of my income out of the LOVE of GOD to support HIS ministry and I still need to do futher study into this matter so that I can be fully convienced in my own heart.

 

[lbaker]

Have we created a false division between what is God's money, and what is our money, or between what is God's work, and what is not God's work?

As someone wrote earlier, 100% of what we have is His already, so how can we say we are going to carve off 10% and give that to God?

It seems to me that everything we spend money on, as Christians, is related to God. If we go to a movie, that is His money we're using, or when we buy groceries, that is His money.

Somehow we think spending God's money to pay for a church building that we sit in, or for utilities to make us comfortable, or for a minister to study for us, is more Godly than spending His money to buy groceries.

It's all His, just as we are all His, whether we're in church or in the movie theatre or the grocery store.

 

[TCGreek]

I found the following from John Macarthur:

Does God require me to give a tithe of all I earn?

Answer

Two kinds of giving are taught consistently throughout Scripture: giving to the government (always compulsory), and giving to God (always voluntary).
The issue has been greatly confused, however, by some who misunderstand the nature of the Old Testament tithes. Tithes were not primarily gifts to God, but taxes for funding the national budget in Israel.

Because Israel was a theocracy, the Levitical priests acted as the civil government. So the Levite's tithe (Leviticus 27:30-33) was a precursor to today's income tax, as was a second annual tithe required by God to fund a national festival (Deuteronomy 14:22-29). Smaller taxes were also imposed on the people by the law (Leviticus 19:9-10; Exodus 23:10-11). So the total giving required of the Israelites was not 10 percent, but well over 20 percent. All that money was used to operate the nation.

All giving apart from that required to run the government was purely voluntary (cf. Exodus 25:2; 1 Chronicles 29:9). Each person gave whatever was in his heart to give; no percentage or amount was specified.

New Testament believers are never commanded to tithe. Matthew 22:15-22 and Romans 13:1-7 tell us about the only required giving in the church age, which is the paying of taxes to the government. Interestingly enough, we in America presently pay between 20 and 30 percent of our income to the government--a figure very similar to the requirement under the theocracy of Israel.

The guideline for our giving to God and His work is found in 2 Corinthians 9:6-7: "Now this I say, he who sows sparingly shall also reap sparingly; and he who sows bountifully shall also reap bountifully. Let each one do just as he has purposed in his heart; not grudgingly or under compulsion; for God loves a cheerful giver."