Still tithing?

[webdog]

I really find this whole thread rather disheartening. It is amazing how we will go to any length to try and convince ourselves that what we want to do is the right thing to do.

I don't see that on this thread at all. What I see is two sides with two different interpretations on what the OT tithe is, and how it is / should apply to the NT church.

 

[Tom Butler]

Let me ask a question here.

What about this scripture? Matthew 5:17-20, Jesus says he did not come to destroy the law, but to fulfill it.

Then he says not one jot or tittle shall pass from the law until the heavens and earth pass away and all is fulfilled.

Now, the question: if tithing is an OT principle, part of the Mosaic law--and Jesus says the law is not destroyed nor passed away--does the law have any application for us New Testament Christians? Like tithing for instance? Just asking here.

I think we'll all agree that we are not free to break the OT commandments. In fact, we stand condemned under the law. The law cannot save us (unless we can keep it perfectly). Paul described it as a schoolmaster to teach us that we cannot keep it. And because we can't we're condemned, and only Christ offers hope for escaping the penalty.

So if we're not free to break the law with impunity, does that include tithing? Just asking.

Release the hounds.

 

[TCGreek]

Let me ask a question here.

What about this scripture? Matthew 5:17-20, Jesus says he did not come to destroy the law, but to fulfill it.

Then he says not one jot or tittle shall pass from the law until the heavens and earth pass away and all is fulfilled.

Now, the question: if tithing is an OT principle, part of the Mosaic law--and Jesus says the law is not destroyed nor passed away--does the law have any application for us New Testament Christians? Like tithing for instance? Just asking here.

1. A hound is released. :laugh:

2. I could be wrong,but Jesus was speaking of himself in respect to the Law; after His resurrection he would say, "Everything must be fulfilled that is written about Me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms" (Lk 24:44, emphasis mine).

I think we'll all agree that we are not free to break the OT commandments. In fact, we stand condemned under the law. The law cannot save us (unless we can keep it perfectly). Paul described it as a schoolmaster to teach us that we cannot keep it. And because we can't we're condemned, and only Christ offers hope for escaping the penalty.

3. We not free to break OT commandments that are applicable to us. For example, we do not keep a seventh day Sabbath, because it is no applicable to us. So not everything that is law in OT is applicable to us.

4. We must prove from the NT that Tithing is applicable to us.

 

[Alcott]

What about this scripture? Matthew 5:17-20, Jesus says he did not come to destroy the law, but to fulfill it....if tithing is an OT principle, part of the Mosaic law--and Jesus says the law is not destroyed nor passed away--does the law have any application for us New Testament Christians?

It's not destroyed-- it's still there. But the temple is not. The altars are not. The hordes of Levites are not. And if all these were there NT Christians would have no use for them. Shall we tithe to support such a system, or shall we accept the one sacrifice for sin and the one high priest who has no need to go into the H of H each year? Besides that, it's virtually (if not in fact) impossible for us today to carry out the tithing laws as scripture commands them.

 

[Carpenter]

This thread, in its own way, was intended to answer just that.



I find your melodrama to border on dishonesty. Nothing personal.

Hi Ivon,

I can understand how you would feel that way because I initially had the same type of reaction when I saw the thread title "Still Tithing?" as if it were suggesting "You shouldn't be doing this because it is unscriptural or not relevant to our worship of God."

And, I do understand that this forum is a proper place for that type of dialogue. What got to me was the fact that I see this type of thing take precedence over more important issues in the church and and it takes the focus away from worshipping God and reaching the lost.

I think the bottom line is that God has instituted His church and we are told that the gates of Hell will not prevail against it. So, if a church is focusing its attention in God honoring ways, then the Holy Spirit will lay it on the hearts of men to give (whether it is considered tithing or offering) to help take care of God's work.

I have witnessed God provide in so many wonderful ways when it comes to the finances of a church and the provision for His laborers in the work. I do apologize if I came off in a critical light, and I do respect your views regarding the subject.

God Bless,
carpenter

 

[Ivon Denosovich]

Carpenter, sorry for my misunderstanding. Thanks for the insightful response.

 

[Aaron]

Now, the question: if tithing is an OT principle, part of the Mosaic law--and Jesus says the law is not destroyed nor passed away--

We have a record that seems to imply that tithing as an act of devotion was an established practice at least 400 years before Moses, Gen. 14:18-20.

does the law have any application for us New Testament Christians? Like tithing for instance? Just asking here.

All Scripture is given by inspiration of God . . . and is profitable for doctrine. So yes, it has an application, but the carnal things of the Law have spiritual applications for the Church. We certainly don't have a physical taberacle, priesthood or system of sacrifice and offering, but the spiritual lessons contained therein are certainly applicable to us today.

So if we're not free to break the law with impunity, does that include tithing? Just asking.

There's no question we have a duty to finance the work of the Gospel, but how much should be set aside? Again, tithing predated the Law, so it seems to me that a tenth is a fit amount. But those who focus only on the tenth have the wrong focus. The focus is love. God loves a cheerful giver. Those who love the Gospel much will give much. Those who love it little will give little. Those who love themselves will keep their money, and better they keep it than that they give it begrudgingly.

 

[TC]

In Gen 14:14-20 we see that Abraham tithed off of the spoils of war and not his own stuff. There is just no evidence that he tithed before of after that one incedent. The bottom line in giving is the motivation/intentions of the heart. Way too many people that teach tithing teach that we give to get per Malachi 3.

 

[Aaron]

In Gen 14:14-20 we see that Abraham tithed off of the spoils of war and not his own stuff.

The spoils of war were his "own stuff." If Abraham's tithe was much different than the tithes commanded by Moses, it doesn't appear to me that it could have been credited to Levi as fulfillment of the Law, Heb. 7:9.

There is just no evidence that he tithed before of after that one incedent.

More accurately, there is no record, but there is evidence. The account itself is evidence. It's reachin' to read this as an isolated incident.

The bottom line in giving is the motivation/intentions of the heart. Way too many people that teach tithing teach that we give to get per Malachi 3.

Agreed.

 

[HankD]

We are not under the law.

We are led of the Spirit and should be living in the Spirit and walking in the Spirit.

KJV Galatians 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.​

KJV Galatians 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.​

If we are walking in the Spirit we won't sin.​

KJV Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.​

If we have the mindset of "keeping the commandments" (Moses) then we are not living by faith.​

KJV Galatians 3
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for,
The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.​

When we sin then that means we have stopped following the leading of the Spirit and responded to the flesh; the old man; the outer man, the adamic man.​

It's what the world calls a paradox.
When we quit trying to keep the commandments and follow the Spirit, by so doing we keep the commandments.​

HankD​