StopBaptistPredators.org -- are these scandals real?

[jprieto]

are accussations in

http://stopbaptistpredators.org/scandals/sbc_ministers.html real?

Anyone know about this organization that is working full time to publish their list?

They claim Baptists are just as bad as Priest when it comes to being arrested for being child predators

note: this may sound like my other post, but it is not. This one is in reference to this particular organization who publish scandals among "baptists" churches related to child predators

http://stopbaptistpredators.org

Check it out and tell me, please, what to make of it


....

 

[Sapper Woody]

I don't know if all those claims are true, but I don't trust anyone who posts the disclaimer

We do the best we can, but we do not make any guarantee about the accuracy of the information

when the accusations are this severe. If you are going to post as truth a claim about someone commiting such a heinous act, you'd better be dead sure that you are correct.

Also

Articles in the news archive reflect published media reports, and those are often reports on criminal charges, not criminal convictions

This website does not conduct investigations or interview witnesses.

To our best knowledge, reported Baptist minister Tommy Gilmore has not been found guilty on any criminal charges for sexual assault of a minor. Most reported clergy perpetrators haven’t.

So, basically they are saying, "these may or may not be true, we're not sure", and "These guys have not been proven guilty, but we're posting as if they're guilty anyway."

Makes it hard for me to take them seriously.

There doesn't need to be a board examining men like this. There needs to be more commen sense used when calling a pastor to a pulpit, and there needs to be some follow up checks with a man's previous positions. If the people of a church were diligent in their duties to learn about a man, it would stop a former perpetrator from coming into their ranks. And if people hear an accusation against their pastor, they need to confront the pastor. If the pastor is a good man of God, he will realize that these people are just doing their job, and he won't have anything to hide. Additionally, pastors need to have safeguards in place to make sure that they are never tempted, and that they won't ever be falsely accused. If they never talk to women/children one on one behind closed doors, and don't allow themselves to be in compromising situations, then they need not fear anything.

 

[Oldtimer]

Good points, Snapper.

In some ways the Internet has replaced tabloid newspapers sold at grocery store checkout counters. The more shocking the headline the more likely shoppers will shell out money for the rag. (Boost hits to generate ad revenue.)

It's wise, very wise, to check out the "About Us" page or its equivalent on any previously unknown site before accepting anything, said there, at face value. Not to do so can lead some in to beleiving a "Purple People Eater" was spotted across town.

BTW, I considered stealing your signature line to include it in my reply to the other thread on this subject. As it, in and of itself, is applicable to the OP in that thread.

 

[mandym]

Christa Brown who owns this site along with some others have been pushing for a more centralized form of governance in the convention so as to combat this. But her two sites seem to not be kept up very often and nothing about this is credible since she cannot vouch fro the accuracy of the info. In fact she could get herself in a lot of trouble.

 

[OldRegular]

I don't doubt that there is child sex abuse in Southern Baptist Churches. I know personally of two such cases although I did not know either man personally.

The first was a pastor of a local Baptist Church many years ago. He left the Church, don't know if he was fired or not, also left the ministry, a devoted wife, and two children.

The second, a retired chemist, was a long time worker in the RA's. He was tried, convicted, imprisoned for life, and as far as I know is still alive in the hell he created for himself.

One problem is that Churches will sometimes pass people on to other churches without informing them of these peoples background.

All the above being said I have concerns about the referenced website, It is identifying men who are only accused, not convicted. Furthermore the person responsible has no idea what constitutes the SBC and how it functions. It is not like the RCC or any other denomination. There is no centralized authority and I am reasonably certain that 90+% of the people do not know this. Therefore, the website is condemning Baptist leaders unfairly.

On another and similar thread by the same person I voiced the suspicion that the website was a malicious effort to smear the Baptist Faith and Christians in general.

 

[Dr. Bob]

Sadly, this is only one of the sites detailing Baptist predators, perverts and evil-doers. Her focus is on the SBC. I know that this does not sit well with Baptists, but the truth out there is not pretty.

I am Reformed Baptist, but my heritage is "independent". Sadly, THAT broad handle covers the Hyles type open adultery, the Dollar type hidden sodomy, the Gray type pedophilia and everything inbetween of the "lunatic fringe" that bears the IFB name. And lots of other more typical historic IFB that have their share of men running off with secretaries, bank accounts, et al.

Since we are NOT "presbyterian" or denominational with a hierarchy that controls each congregation (and we DO NOT WANT THAT unblblical beast), such websites and trying to "shout from the rooftops" of the evil that these men are doing is one of several ways we can try to "police" our own shepherds.

 

[agedman]

Like Dr. Bob, I have first hand experience in the excess of the IFB, and in particular the Hyles father and son.

There is a Lawyer who was a deacon that wrote, "Fundamental Seduction" about the seduction of the church by the pastor. Another deacon the man who saw his wife turn away from the marriage in favor of pleasing Jack Hyles also wrote "Wizard of God" about the seductions, heresy, and perverting of truth by that man.

Merely a casual search of Dave Hyles will bring the actual words from the former wife (Paula) who describes on audio tape some the excess of both father and son.

To this day there are preachers and ministries who are based upon these two "men of god" and refuse to even look at the truth.

Decades of great damage and threatening have been leveled toward the two authors of the books (I have read both) and it is shameful.

Typical pew sitting people will worship a man rather than God, and excuse all manner of excess in the name of Love.

 

[Dr. Bob]

I would encourage folks NOT to google "hyles" - lots of filth and pictures. Dad (who taught his son all he knows) claimed David was the most spiritual man . . while he was shuffling him off from the church filled with vile conduct to an unsuspecting church in Texas that David likewise preyed on many women and teen girls.

I was at the Garland church the Sunday when his abandoned wife/kids were "adopted" by the church to step in for this vile abusing husband. God bless Pastor Coleman for being the sort of Baptist pastor to be proud of . . compared to the ifbX types.

 

[Mexdeaf]

And that's just the sexual predator side- then there's the money predators and those who use churches as steppingstones.

 

[Baptist Believer]

Christa Brown who owns this site along with some others have been pushing for a more centralized form of governance in the convention so as to combat this. But her two sites seem to not be kept up very often and nothing about this is credible since she cannot vouch fro the accuracy of the info. In fact she could get herself in a lot of trouble.

The disclaimer is specifically designed to keep her out of trouble.

She is an attorney and knows full well that if sometime ends up on her site from a credible source, but it not completely accurate or is later found to be wrong, she could find herself in a lengthy lawsuit battle even though she took great precautions to avoid presenting false information.

 

[Yeshua1]

Sadly, this is only one of the sites detailing Baptist predators, perverts and evil-doers. Her focus is on the SBC. I know that this does not sit well with Baptists, but the truth out there is not pretty.

I am Reformed Baptist, but my heritage is "independent". Sadly, THAT broad handle covers the Hyles type open adultery, the Dollar type hidden sodomy, the Gray type pedophilia and everything inbetween of the "lunatic fringe" that bears the IFB name. And lots of other more typical historic IFB that have their share of men running off with secretaries, bank accounts, et al.

Since we are NOT "presbyterian" or denominational with a hierarchy that controls each congregation (and we DO NOT WANT THAT unblblical beast), such websites and trying to "shout from the rooftops" of the evil that these men are doing is one of several ways we can try to "police" our own shepherds.

isn't the BIG difference between baptists involved in that sin and say RC priests is that the RCC has made a determination to have a wide conspirecy on hiding it, movingaround those priests?

 

[Mexdeaf]

isn't the BIG difference between baptists involved in that sin and say RC priests is that the RCC has made a determination to have a wide conspirecy on hiding it, movingaround those priests?

Not much difference IMHO- the IFB and the SBC have done their share of "moving around" their ped*philes and fornicators.

 

[mandym]

Not much difference IMHO- the IFB and the SBC have done their share of "moving around" their ped*philes and fornicators.

SBC" has done absolutely no moving around of pedophiles. You are now guilty of being a false witness. It is not even possible that the "SBC" move anyone around.

 

[Baptist Believer]

SBC has done absolutely no moving around of pedophiles... It is not even possible that the "SBC" move anyone around.

Mandym is correct.

The SBC does not make assignments of ministers and has no control over the churches in their selection of ministers.

However, some churches send their problems to other churches so they don't have to deal with them. I've personally seen this on several occasions. Recently I served on a search committee, and since I am hyper-sensitive to these issues, I repeatedly insisted that we do extensive background checks on the ministers whom we were seriously considering. One of our sister churches was trying to push off a minister who had been involved in some questionable behavior (I don't know if they actually had any evidence) and I was actually contacted by one of their church members, giving the man a strong recommendation. When I pointed out that we were no longer considering him, she expressed great disappointment because "they were trying to get that creepy guy off the staff." With another candidate, we received glowing recommendations/endorsements from his current pastor and others in his community, but when we checked with the pastors of previous churches for whom he did not give contact information, we received very disturbing off the record information that caused us to immediately reject that candidate.

Until individuals and churches have some courage and deal with these predators directly and as publicly as needed, they will continue to find victims inside and outside the churches. We must be willing to risk "negative" publicity in order to do the right thing instead of playing ministerial "hot potato", passing them around, hoping that the public scandal will not occur while they are in our midst.

 

[Mexdeaf]

SBC" has done absolutely no moving around of pedophiles. You are now guilty of being a false witness. It is not even possible that the "SBC" move anyone around.

Pardon me, I meant "IFB churches" and "SBC churches".

Proof of my contention:

http://thewartburgwatch.com/2011/06...e-on-the-sbc-and-warrentown-community-church/

 

[agedman]

I was at the Garland church the Sunday when his abandoned wife/kids were "adopted" by the church to step in for this vile abusing husband. God bless Pastor Coleman for being the sort of Baptist pastor to be proud of . . compared to the ifbX types.

Yes, Dr. Coleman is a good man; I have known he and the LDBC family for decades.

There is also the long historical record of coverup that is systemic in all Baptist groupings - be it SBC, GARB, IFB, or any other.

Coleman and the LDBC staff knew what Dave Hyles was before Dave came to Garland and never spoke a word of warning to the folks at Miller Road.

Coleman and the LDBC staff knew about the problems while Dave was at Miller Road and never spoke a word of warning to deacons at Miller Road.

He knew about the problem with Jack Hyles and the wife of a deacon for years. He repeatedly had Hyles in the pulpit before his death, but never denounced the sin(s) and embraced him as friend.


While you were at LDBC that Sunday morning, I was at MRBC helping attempts to pick up the pieces with an assembly that never were told the complete truth, were just beginning to awaken to the depths of the deceit, and watching helpless and impotent as families disintegrated.

Thank the Father that a local assembly such as LDBC would respond in support of those that came to her! That is not untypical of that fellowship.


I am not putting down LDBC, the staff, nor Gary Coleman.

What I am posting is that the typical thinking of that time is hopefully NOT the same as propagated and taught, today. Unfortunately, I am probably wrong in that hope.


There needs to be a network of support and accountability for all the fallen, those of the ministry leadership who are repentant and victims alike. Like Paula and the children, many had dark days and even years, and as the folks from MRBC who could no longer darken the doors withdrew, it was always my hopeful prayer that each would find loving arms of a good assembly to compassionately help them work through the turmoil(s). I personally think that there could have been more involvement between the two church assemblies, but pride and history have a way of disparaging.



I am not for blistering scorn to be heaped upon any fallen believer nor would I join in ridicule of those who held/hold the mistaken view that drove the thinking of "let God handle it." There is enough dust in my own life to contend.

However, I view it is a mistake for a pastor of a local assembly to expect the Holy Spirit to remedy the problems in your own home and assembly while participating in covering the repeated and known sin of a fellow pastor in the same area - especially as familial(ly) intertwined and connected as the two churches were - MRBC is basically no more.

 

[USN2Pulpit]

...some churches send their problems to other churches so they don't have to deal with them. I've personally seen this on several occasions. Recently I served on a search committee, and since I am hyper-sensitive to these issues, I repeatedly insisted that we do extensive background checks on the ministers whom we were seriously considering.

Thanks for the comments here. I think that any search committee - in addition to prayer - must educate themselves on how they can best serve the church. Many would like to believe the best about a candidate, and don't go the necessary "extra mile" to make sure of things.

 

[agedman]

Thanks for the comments here. I think that any search committee - in addition to prayer - must educate themselves on how they can best serve the church. Many would like to believe the best about a candidate, and don't go the necessary "extra mile" to make sure of things.

There is a lot more that a committee can do as far as investigative work than was capable even a couple decades ago.

Two areas that the committee must be very familiar with.

First, is digging out and thoroughly knowing their own doctrinal statements of faith that unify that specific assembly around a systematically laid out core of Scriptural thinking. Most pew sitters have never seen their foundational statements and have only relied upon what the last man taught them or what they think sounds right. They willingly accept for membership any that profess faith and are baptized, or have a letter from another baptist church.

Second, every candidate should not have to be asked, but should engage in asking the committee what doctrinal views the church holds. Folks assume baptist means the same from town to town. Wrong assumption.

Unless there is agreement and discussion readily lead by the candidate, how can the committee actually see leadership in action and agreement or disagreement on points of doctrine.

 

[Gina B]

I haven't visited the site, although if it's older, I may have done so and forgotten.

The disclaimer claimed to be on there: That in itself would not make it untrustworthy imo. Many of the people who do this make sure THERE ARE NO WITNESSES. There's really no way to be 100% Hyles...I mean...100% sure.

I could tell my own on what happened in a couple particular churches...but you know what? I keep my mouth shut. Why? Because I can't prove a single thing. All it would do is stir up strife and bitterness. Could it save someone else? I doubt it.

One of my abusers has recently been caught. TWENTY NINE YEARS after I first reported it. He was still at it. I'm pretty sure that speaking up did nothing but cause me more problems and cause those around me to put up and shut up because they saw that nothing could be done, nothing was done, and I was casted as the demon bringing down the angel in what should have been a story that was never written.

But it was.

And there are many more and you know what? I've read that story. I know how it ends.

Over and over, the same thing, but it's always too late for those who were abused, it's too late one second after because it can NEVER be taken back.

Publish it online? It probably will do no good than shouting it from a literal rooftop. Nobody will be certain what to believe.

Of course, it's much harder to find people shouting the GOOD things about decent Baptist churches. Maybe if there were, people would be more likely to care. When a well is filled with polluted water and everyone knows it, who is going to listen when someone stands up and screams "hey, that well is polluted! This is terrible!" Yeah yeah, same old story, so is that well, so is that well, did you hear about that well?

How about the clean ones? How about the ones with sweet water? How about the pure ones?

It's good to root out the evil, but the best way to do it is by focusing on the good, the sweet, the pure, the true, and make sure that is what is in YOUR community, YOUR church, YOUR home, YOUR life. A bitter well won't be healed by more bitterness.

And that's the end of my rant o' the day.

 

[Mexdeaf]

Mandym is correct.

The SBC does not make assignments of ministers and has no control over the churches in their selection of ministers.

However, some churches send their problems to other churches so they don't have to deal with them. I've personally seen this on several occasions. Recently I served on a search committee, and since I am hyper-sensitive to these issues, I repeatedly insisted that we do extensive background checks on the ministers whom we were seriously considering. One of our sister churches was trying to push off a minister who had been involved in some questionable behavior (I don't know if they actually had any evidence) and I was actually contacted by one of their church members, giving the man a strong recommendation. When I pointed out that we were no longer considering him, she expressed great disappointment because "they were trying to get that creepy guy off the staff." With another candidate, we received glowing recommendations/endorsements from his current pastor and others in his community, but when we checked with the pastors of previous churches for whom he did not give contact information, we received very disturbing off the record information that caused us to immediately reject that candidate.

Until individuals and churches have some courage and deal with these predators directly and as publicly as needed, they will continue to find victims inside and outside the churches. We must be willing to risk "negative" publicity in order to do the right thing instead of playing ministerial "hot potato", passing them around, hoping that the public scandal will not occur while they are in our midst.

This is what I meant to say- thanks!