This is an account of an incident happening in an area church as told first hand to me by the Pastor (now dead) involved in this case. Up on discovering that a staff member was involved in a homosexual relationship with another homosexual in an adjoining town, refused to give him a raised when he had his performance review. The wife of the staff member upon discovering that her husband was the only staff member who had failed to get an increase confronted the Pastor and asked, why.Without completly ignoring the request tried to be as evasive as he could with out stating the truth. IMO the Pastor shold have dealt with this at the time of the time of the PR, however he didn't. After a bit the wife asked, "Is it that homosexual thing again?" The Pastor said yes and this was the end of the conversation. The Pastor did his due diligence after the fact and found that this was the third occurance of such and the staff member was discharged. The Pastor did write a letter to the two previous churches who had promoted their problems, reprimanding them.
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StopBaptistPredators.org -- are these scandals real?
- Thread starter jprieto
- Start date
You do not have any proof that the "SBC" does any such thing. The "SBC" is not responsible for moving or placing anyone in a local church. You are guilty if a malicious mischaracterization and therefore of being a false witness.
He wasn't a minister but I personally know a guy in his mid 40's who was very active in his church and tried to seduce a 14 year old he met at church. She told her parents and the cops set up a sting, had him chat online with her while under police supervision, and apparently it got quite nasty. They arranged a meeting place and she requested a specific kind of candy and liquor when he showed up and the cops busted him when he got out to meet her, liquor and all. Right this moment he is serving a 3 year jail sentence. I would have given him more. Don't act like it doesn't happen.
Thanks to everyone for the replies.
I feel a little better now, and can better defend against any other person in the future putting down my sharing of the gospel by citing this site.
Nevertheless, even if the persons featured on that site have not ben convicted, they would not have posted the names and photos if there were no actual arrests made.
If those baptist featured had put Christ FIRST in their lives, their photos would not had ended up on that site.
However, a person is innocent until evidence proves otherwise -- and I personally know cases were the accusations were totally false (I once saw a TV talk show interview grownups who had falsely accused several men of abuse out of vengance or anger .... only to have a grieving concience many years later).
again.... thanks for clearing this issue
I feel a little better now, and can better defend against any other person in the future putting down my sharing of the gospel by citing this site.
Nevertheless, even if the persons featured on that site have not ben convicted, they would not have posted the names and photos if there were no actual arrests made.
If those baptist featured had put Christ FIRST in their lives, their photos would not had ended up on that site.
However, a person is innocent until evidence proves otherwise -- and I personally know cases were the accusations were totally false (I once saw a TV talk show interview grownups who had falsely accused several men of abuse out of vengance or anger .... only to have a grieving concience many years later).
again.... thanks for clearing this issue
Well, if you can't read or comprehend then I can't help you.
And why do you believe that makes it say anything else?
I'm done with you on this subject. Have a nice evening.
Yes of course you are.
Though technically the SBC doesn't move people around, there can be no doubt that they are part of the problem of predators moving around from one church to the next.
The local autonomy that exists within Baptist life makes this moving around easy to do. They are not to blame for people taking advantage of the innocent, but there is a difference between not a having a mechanism in place in order to warn people/ churches about suspected predators and absolutely refusing to try anything whatsoever to warn churches. This is what the SBC has done, completely stone walled at every turn.
These are smart people, so I'm told, I find it hard to believe that there isn't some way to warn churches while at the same time keeping local autonomy completely in tact.
Remember there are sins of commission and sins of omission.
The local autonomy that exists within Baptist life makes this moving around easy to do. They are not to blame for people taking advantage of the innocent, but there is a difference between not a having a mechanism in place in order to warn people/ churches about suspected predators and absolutely refusing to try anything whatsoever to warn churches. This is what the SBC has done, completely stone walled at every turn.
These are smart people, so I'm told, I find it hard to believe that there isn't some way to warn churches while at the same time keeping local autonomy completely in tact.
Remember there are sins of commission and sins of omission.
There is another aspect of the thread that was briefly mentioned but I think needs further exploration.
First, let me state that there is very little tolerance within me for anyone who molests a child.
It has been posted that this site operates on the premise that an arrest indicates guilt.
Law enforcement and related services have a huge power house - multiple layers and in general a huge resistance to admitting they got it wrong. Anyone who has been contrary to that government entity knows that it is an unequal fight at best. They do a very necessary and thankless job, but we have all heard and read accounts of over reach and over reacting. Isn't it strange that we put the authority of supervision and arrest of the social moral laws into those who are perhaps unregenerate? At least God appointed priests to uphold the law. But that is another topic.
Illustration - not true - given to establish a scenario, only:
Is it not possible that person could have easily ended up on the website in question which would continue the false accusation and ignore the truth?
Is that not sinful?
Perhaps the site could have been better served to rely upon convictions rather than arrest.
I know that some who post are going to suggest alternatives the older man could have relied upon, but try to stick with the proposed story and don't second guess alternatives. OK, do with it as you will.
To those who have gone through the horrible trauma of molestation, there is healing, but the stink and sting memory can bring is not erased until after the last judgment. Women need to find a Godly and skilled woman counselor, that they may visit from time to time throughout their life. Men need to find a Godly and skilled man counselor. Do this early and visit at least once a year; that way the counselor has a record of the trauma, and you don't go in "cold turkey" in rage and desperation; the counselor trying to handle history and the manifestation at the same time.
After many years, I have recently come to the uneasy conclusion that the pastor of the church may not be the best person in which to seek counsel. The trauma person doesn't need to feel doubly violated in regret when they hear of the pastor's moral failure. A wise pastor will recommend Godly counselor(s) and not allow an avenue of vulnerability to either he or his family.
First, let me state that there is very little tolerance within me for anyone who molests a child.
It has been posted that this site operates on the premise that an arrest indicates guilt.
Law enforcement and related services have a huge power house - multiple layers and in general a huge resistance to admitting they got it wrong. Anyone who has been contrary to that government entity knows that it is an unequal fight at best. They do a very necessary and thankless job, but we have all heard and read accounts of over reach and over reacting. Isn't it strange that we put the authority of supervision and arrest of the social moral laws into those who are perhaps unregenerate? At least God appointed priests to uphold the law. But that is another topic.
Illustration - not true - given to establish a scenario, only:
A third grade age male followed an older man into a larger church restroom. The young male's zipper became stuck and in the desperation children have (always waiting till the last minute to go) asked if the man could help. About the time the zipper became unstuck, the father walks in, makes a false assumption, and assaults both verbally and physically the older man. The continuing commotion brings others to the scene and the father is held back with much shouting and of course the whole family becomes part of the fray. By the time the police arrive the details are that the older man "touched" the child so he was arrested. It took thousands of dollars and a jury trial to find the man innocent, but the dad continued to smear the older man's reputation so much that to this day folks do not trust him and whisper slander among each other.
Is it not possible that person could have easily ended up on the website in question which would continue the false accusation and ignore the truth?
Is that not sinful?
Perhaps the site could have been better served to rely upon convictions rather than arrest.
I know that some who post are going to suggest alternatives the older man could have relied upon, but try to stick with the proposed story and don't second guess alternatives. OK, do with it as you will.
To those who have gone through the horrible trauma of molestation, there is healing, but the stink and sting memory can bring is not erased until after the last judgment. Women need to find a Godly and skilled woman counselor, that they may visit from time to time throughout their life. Men need to find a Godly and skilled man counselor. Do this early and visit at least once a year; that way the counselor has a record of the trauma, and you don't go in "cold turkey" in rage and desperation; the counselor trying to handle history and the manifestation at the same time.
After many years, I have recently come to the uneasy conclusion that the pastor of the church may not be the best person in which to seek counsel. The trauma person doesn't need to feel doubly violated in regret when they hear of the pastor's moral failure. A wise pastor will recommend Godly counselor(s) and not allow an avenue of vulnerability to either he or his family.
Supposedly, this is what the "letter of recommendation" is about when a member of another church transfers their membership.
But that can just become a formality rather than an actual accounting of standing.
The problem in not distant past in the IFB church seems primarily within the staff of a church. Many staff are hired and fired without the church membership approval and sometimes in the largest assemblies (FBC - Hammond) without even deacon oversight. Once the person has served on staff, then they are recommended to the pastorate of a church, and because of the reputation of the large church, the small assembly assumes a certain level of moral righteousness.
There is a mechanism in place by the government. It is called the national registry for sexual predators.
Not everyone who is a predator is that list. It really is the minimum that a church could do. Do we really want churches doing just the minimum? As an example, Jerry Sandusky would have never been on any registry previous to his arrest about a year ago, yet he stands convicted of abuse going back decades. Churches must do more then the minimum.
If the SBC is going to say they are of one mind on faith, practice and even missions, it makes no sense to not be of one mind when it comes to warning churches and protecting innocents. They can no longer bury their head in the sand about this issue.
I agree. Too many churches and organizations are reactive on this issue when they should be proactive. I keep thinking about what Jesus said about how someone who offends one of these little ones should have a millstone tied around his neck and be cast into the sea. To me this indicates the seriousness that God places on these sins.
Who would have reported a Sandusky. Are you sure you want to use that example? We cannot report anyone that has not been convicted.
Individual churches may have buried their heads in the sand but the convention has not.
What concerns me is not the website in question,
but the fact that churches SHOULD enforce disciplinary actions
for improper conduct within its membership
here is the catch....
REGARDLESS OF POSITION HELD WITHIN THE CHURCH
Then, websites like that are forced to admin that the church enforced some action against the accused.
The public are upset at baptist child molesters,
but they are even MORE upset at the churches who are not doing anything about it.
Remember when Peter was wrong and Paul confronted him IN PUBLIC??
Can we not do the same?
...
but the fact that churches SHOULD enforce disciplinary actions
for improper conduct within its membership
here is the catch....
REGARDLESS OF POSITION HELD WITHIN THE CHURCH
Then, websites like that are forced to admin that the church enforced some action against the accused.
The public are upset at baptist child molesters,
but they are even MORE upset at the churches who are not doing anything about it.
Remember when Peter was wrong and Paul confronted him IN PUBLIC??
Can we not do the same?
...
Are you not aware of the trial for perjury and failure to report about to take place for the former school president and athletic director? There were warning signs and reports, yet they did nothing.
Cannot report anyone that has not been convicted - are you out of your mind?! To wait for a conviction when you suspect something has happened or is happening to a child is not only illegal and irresponsible, it is immoral!
You need to read some news sources besides Baptist Press, the SBC has absolutely stonewalled on this issue.