• Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Strong Delusion?

C

Calvibaptist

New Member
I don't know why God does anything, except that the Bible says it is all for His glory. When Paul in Romans 9 (I know, that chapter again) posed that question in the mind of the detractor, the answer was, "Who are you to question God?"

The Bible doesn't tell us the "why" of a lot of things. So, I don't have an answer for you.

Total inability doesn't speak to the end result, only the current state. By God sending a strong delusion, he facilitates the end result, which is final rejection. Did He need to? I guess not, but He does, so I guess it was something He thought important.
 
G

genesis12

Member
The strong delusion is to ultimately believe all that cultic stuff a lost person entertains, and finally bathes in.
 
C

Calvibaptist

New Member
Originally posted by JackRUS:
Hmmmm...

The Totalally Depraved need to be deluded now. Interesting.
Click to expand...
Jack, did you even read the conversation that Tim and I were having? I very clearly said that obviously God didn't need to delude them, but, for a reason none of us know, He chose to. He is allowed to choose to do whatever He wants, is He not?
 
B

Bill Brown

New Member
2 Thessalonians 2:8-12 8 And then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming; 9 that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders, 10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they might believe what is false, 12 in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.

Verse 10 says that those who perish will be deceived. Verse 11 speaks of a "deluding influence." It is probable that the deluding influence (v. 11) makes the deception of v. 10 possible. So the deluding influence is actually the antecedant for the deception. What is the deluding influence that leads to deception? One can only speculate because the text does not say exactly.

It is interesting that v. 11 says that it is God who sends the deluding influence. Interesting. Why would God intentionally hinder their ability to believe? It is worth noting the following verses:

2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth. 14 And it was for this He called you through our gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Paul tells the Thessalonians that God had taken them. The word "chosen" in verse 13 is haireomai. It is a possessive term. It means to be taken. It is not passive. God had taken the Thessalonians for salvation. In comparison He had not taken those who believed the delusion.

Interesting.
 
J

JackRUS

New Member
Originally posted by Calvibaptist:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by JackRUS:
Hmmmm...

The Totalally Depraved need to be deluded now. Interesting.
Click to expand...
Jack, did you even read the conversation that Tim and I were having? I very clearly said that obviously God didn't need to delude them, but, for a reason none of us know, He chose to. He is allowed to choose to do whatever He wants, is He not? </font>[/QUOTE]That's known in theological circles as "last resort theology".

You know, "Well...He could have done that if He wanted to!"
laugh.gif
 
B

Bill Brown

New Member
Originally posted by JackRUS:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Calvibaptist:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by JackRUS:
Hmmmm...

The Totalally Depraved need to be deluded now. Interesting.
Click to expand...
Jack, did you even read the conversation that Tim and I were having? I very clearly said that obviously God didn't need to delude them, but, for a reason none of us know, He chose to. He is allowed to choose to do whatever He wants, is He not? </font>[/QUOTE]That's known in theological circles as "last resort theology".

You know, "Well...He could have done that if He wanted to!"
laugh.gif
</font>[/QUOTE]I think the Lord does give some insight as to why he sent a strong delusion. Paul writes:

2 Thessalonians 2:10-11 because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they might believe what is false,

Those who received the deluding influence also did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. It was for this reason that they received the deluding influence. It was an act of judgment by God. Now a fair question to ask is, why did they not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved? That is the question that cannot be answered. But this we do know: all are born under the dominion of sin and darkened to the truth. All of us are guilty and deserving of the same judgment from God. But for reasons we do not know, some have (and will) escape the same fate. How so?

Ephesians 2:4-7 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus, 7 in order that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
 
M

Me4Him

New Member
Joh 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: (as being the Messiah)


if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. (as being the Messiah)
Click to expand...
John 4 48,
Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.

Mr 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders,



false Christs
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, (AC)


false prophets
Re 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast;
 
B

Bill Brown

New Member
Originally posted by Me4Him:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Joh 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: (as being the Messiah)


if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. (as being the Messiah)
Click to expand...
John 4 48,
Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.

Mr 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders,



false Christs
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, (AC)


false prophets
Re 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; </font>[/QUOTE]I'm wondering what this has to do (in context)with 2 Thessalonians 2:11?
 
M

Me4Him

New Member
Originally posted by Bill Brown:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Me4Him:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Joh 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: (as being the Messiah)


if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. (as being the Messiah)
Click to expand...
John 4 48,
Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.

Mr 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders,



false Christs
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, (AC)


false prophets
Re 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; </font>[/QUOTE]I'm wondering what this has to do (in context)with 2 Thessalonians 2:11? </font>[/QUOTE]2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked (AC) be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: (children) for he is a liar, and the father of it. (lie)

Satan is the "father of a lie", the AC, the "SON" of predition", and who do they believe is the "Messiah", THE LIE
 
B

Bill Brown

New Member
Originally posted by Me4Him:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bill Brown:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Me4Him:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Joh 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: (as being the Messiah)


if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. (as being the Messiah)
Click to expand...
John 4 48,
Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.

Mr 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders,



false Christs
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, (AC)


false prophets
Re 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; </font>[/QUOTE]I'm wondering what this has to do (in context)with 2 Thessalonians 2:11? </font>[/QUOTE]2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked (AC) be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: (children) for he is a liar, and the father of it. (lie)

Satan is the "father of a lie", the AC, the "SON" of predition", and who do they believe is the "Messiah", THE LIE </font>[/QUOTE]I understand the point you are trying to make but I do not see where it has anything to do with the context of the 2 Thessalonians passage.
 
C

Calvibaptist

New Member
You will find that Me4 says a lot of things that have nothing to do with either the context of the thread or the context of the passage.
 
M

Me4Him

New Member
Originally posted by Calvibaptist:
You will find that Me4 says a lot of things that have nothing to do with either the context of the thread or the context of the passage.
Click to expand...
I believe it was asked in the OP,

What form do you think this delusion might take?

hence my answer, The lie (delusion) people believed would be the AC as being the Messiah.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top