Strong delusion.

[BobRyan]

Okay, then. Can we agree that a church has to believe in the fundamentals of Christianity to preach true doctrine?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamentalist_Christianity

Billy Sunday was ordained into the Presbyterian ministry.
I believe he's in Heaven.

The only reason I suggested Independent Baptist is because I've been one my entire life. Many denominations have strayed from the fundamentals of Christianity. I've edited some of the original post.

From your link

Fundamentalist Christianity, or Christian fundamentalism, is a movement that arose mainly within British and American Protestantism in the late 19th and early 20th centuries by conservative evangelical Christians, who, in a reaction to modernism, actively affirmed a fundamental set of Christian beliefs: the inerrancy of the Bible, Sola Scriptura, the virgin birth of Christ, the doctrine of substitutionary atonement, the bodily resurrection of Jesus, and the imminent return of Jesus Christ.

1. Scipture is Infallible
2. All practice and doctirne to be tested/justed "sola scriptura"
3. Virgin Birth
4. Substitutionary atonement
5. Literal bodily resurrection
6. Soon return of Christ

What group does that leave out???

BTW - it did not mention women pastors, the deity of Christ or the trinity -- so by that list - even the JWs are in

oops - they believe in bodily resurrection for all BUT the 144,000 so that leaves them borderline?

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Thanks for seeing what I was trying to say. :saint:

I've changed a few things. I'm concerned because I've seen too many stray from the fundamentals of Christianity.

Billy Sunday was ordained into the Presbyterian ministry.
They have strayed, since his days as a pastor.

I definitely didn't mean to offend anyone. I just want to see more churches preaching Biblical doctrine.

Given your link to Christian fundamental beliefs page -- what is it that Presbyterian's no longer believe in that list?

Bob

 

[Agnus_Dei]

For those who are of another denomination.

Have you even thought about switching to an Independent Baptist church or a church that believes in the fundamentals of Christianity?

Actually, I left the Independent Baptist Church for the true one Church that believes and teaches the true fundamentals of Christianity as was taught by the Apostles themselves.

INXC
-

 

[Doubting Thomas]

Actually, I left the Independent Baptist Church for the true one Church that believes and teaches the true fundamentals of Christianity as was taught by the Apostles themselves.

INXC
-

Get ready to duck, brother. :smilewinkgrin:

 

[The Scribe]

From your link



1. Scipture is Infallible
2. All practice and doctirne to be tested/justed "sola scriptura"
3. Virgin Birth
4. Substitutionary atonement
5. Literal bodily resurrection
6. Soon return of Christ

What group does that leave out???

BTW - it did not mention women pastors, the deity of Christ or the trinity -- so by that list - even the JWs are in

oops - they believe in bodily resurrection for all BUT the 144,000 so that leaves them borderline?

in Christ,

Bob

Well, wikipedia leaves out things sometimes. Maybe, a Catholic edited it. :saint:

A church can't have a female or homosexual pastor. Some Presbyterian churches are electing them to preach. They have strayed from Biblical doctrine.

Trinity is a must. The Father, Jesus Christ, and The Holy Spirit.

Another must is that Jesus is and always was the Messiah and was our sacrifice on the cross. Without Jesus there is no sacrifice for sin and that Jesus bodily raised in three days after His death on the cross.
Bishops/Pastors must be the Husband of one wife.

Here's a good list. Doctrinal Beliefs

 

[The Scribe]

Actually, I left the Independent Baptist Church for the true one Church that believes and teaches the true fundamentals of Christianity as was taught by the Apostles themselves.

INXC
-

Some Methodist might still follow Biblical Doctrine. Look at the link above this comment.

 

[The Scribe]

Given your link to Christian fundamental beliefs page -- what is it that Presbyterian's no longer believe in that list?

Bob

Like I said before... Some of them are electing female and homosexual pastors.

They have also become too Calvinist.

Limited atonement
Christ did not die for all men but only those on the "saved list"

 

[dan e.]

For those who are of another denomination.

Have you even thought about switching to an Independent Baptist church or a church that believes in the fundamentals of Christianity?

I'd like to see that happen. Some of these other denominations are feeding you lies.

I don't want to see you under a strong delusion and believing the false prophets lies.

I'm not trying to judge you. I just want to make sure that you spend eternity in Heaven.

You can have your hand on the door knob, then fall into the pit of hell.

I wouldn't want that to happen to any of you.

You should think about it.

2 Thessalonians 2:8-12 (KJV)
8: And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10: And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11: And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

I'm not here to judge any of you. I'd just like to see you come to the knowledge of truth.

WHAT!!?? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 

[Cara]

A lot of the other denominations have some of the right doctrine. Then they add or take away things they shouldn't.

I know Hagee says Jesus didn't come to be the Messiah.

Jesus did in fact come to earth the first time to be both sacrifice for our sins and as the Messiah. Anyone who denies that Jesus or that He is the Messiah is a false prophet.

1 John 2:21-23 (KJV)
21: I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
22: Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
23: Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

The Catholics tell their priests not to marry. But the scriptures say otherwise.

1 Timothy 3:2 (KJV)
A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

Possibly if you can find a good old fashioned Methodist church you could go there.
I've been an Independent Baptist my entire life.
They are the closest to what I read in scripture.

I can't speak for the other denoms you mention, but can respond to your statement about the Catholic Church. It is only the Latin (or what some refer to as the Roman) rite in which priests take a vow of celibacy. All other rites within the Catholic Church have a married priesthood. And even in the Latin rite, there are married priests (usually former Anglican or Lutheran ministers who are already married and wish to serve in the Catholic priesthood). The celibate priesthood in the Latin Rite is a discipline -- not a doctrine -- of that rite. It could change tomorrow, but probably won't. Moroever, the vow of celibacy is not forced but voluntary on the part of those who wish to serve as priests in the Latin rite of the Catholic Church.

As for being the "husband of one wife," I do believe that means no bigamists or divorced/remarried bishops. Certainly there are widowed bishops in Christian denoms, so that portion of the passage cannot mean "must be married" in order to serve as bishop, but "IF married, must be married to only one wife."

 

[Agnus_Dei]

Some Methodist might still follow Biblical Doctrine. Look at the link above this comment.

When I joined the BB I had just left the IB Church and was attending a Methodist Church. I'm now an Orthodox Catechumen. I'm not able to modify my profile to reflect Orthodoxy.

I am fond however of some of John Wesleys older writings and thanks to John I discovered the Apostolic and Early Church Fathers.

INXC
-

 

[Cara]

I've never heard of any Baptist church that had a female pastor.
They were Baptist in name only.

This is probably a very elementary question for you regulars here, but I honestly don't know the answer. How can one tell if a church is "Baptist in name only?"

 

[BobRyan]

Like I said before... Some of them are electing female and homosexual pastors.

They have also become too Calvinist.

Limited atonement
Christ did not die for all men but only those on the "saved list"

1. not sure how a Presbyterian becomes "too Calvinist". Isn't that like a Luterhan becoming "too Lutheran"?

2. Also - the things you list above - do not appear as "fundamental doctrines" in yor Wikipedia link. One would need to conclude that your reference to real truth must be some set beyond the list given there - right?

in Christ,

Bob

 

[The Scribe]

This is probably a very elementary question for you regulars here, but I honestly don't know the answer. How can one tell if a church is "Baptist in name only?"

When they stray from Biblical doctrine.

As for the Catholics.
Calling the priests father. God is the only Father.
Praying repetitive words using the rosary beads.
Praying to saints and Mary.
The perpetual virginity of Mary.
Saying Peter wasn't married, when he was.
Sprinkling instead of full immersion for baptism.
All false beliefs.

Catholic doctrine

 

[BobRyan]

A church can't have a female or homosexual pastor. Some Presbyterian churches are electing them to preach. They have strayed from Biblical doctrine.

Trinity is a must. The Father, Jesus Christ, and The Holy Spirit.

Another must is that Jesus is and always was the Messiah and was our sacrifice on the cross. Without Jesus there is no sacrifice for sin and that Jesus bodily raised in three days after His death on the cross.
Bishops/Pastors must be the Husband of one wife.

Here's a good list. Doctrinal Beliefs

That link has a much more specific list of doctrines -- narrowing the scope down to ... "Baptist"?? If you accept those doctrines as listed there are you not "Baptist"? In fact might you even be a "certain kind of Baptist" (i.e. not free-will or not Seventh-day Baptist)?

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Gold Dragon]

For those who are of another denomination.

Have you even thought about switching to an Independent Baptist church or a church that believes in the fundamentals of Christianity?

I'd like to see that happen. Some of these other denominations are feeding you lies.

I don't want to see you under a strong delusion and believing the false prophets lies.

I'm not trying to judge you. I just want to make sure that you spend eternity in Heaven.

If teaching incorrect doctrine = feeding lies, then I would say all denominations including Baptist denominations are feeding lies to their congregants.

In my eyes, the solution is not about leaving any particular group to go to the "One right and pure" group but for groups and individuals to communicate and study the scriptures together so that all parties will become more biblical and orthodox.

There are some exceptions where the doctrine and practice are so far removed from biblical and historical Christianity that immediate removal from that toxic environment is more important than dialogue. Fred Phelp's independent Baptist church is one such example.

Sometimes an individual comes to a point in their spiritual journey where the church or denomination they are currently in no longer reflects their beliefs or is no longer able to support their spiritual growth, like what Agnus_Dei probably had to go through. At that point a switch is necessary. Whether it is to or from a Baptist, evangelical or protestant denomination, I support it if the person grows in faith and biblical orthodoxy.

 

[jed101]

I am with you Scribe! We have attended an independent Baptist Church for many years. I really appreciated their strong stance on separation, purity, moral issues and music.

We are now attending a Baptist Church which belongs to the Baptist Union of Western Canada, which is a member of the CCC (Canadian Council of Churches). The CCC includes Catholics in its membership who even hold positions of authority within. Most mainstream denominations in Canada are members of the CCC, and as such, part of their offering money is sent to this organization, which has been around for a long time, but has only recently allowed the Catholic church to become members. It is a real concern for my familly; in fact at the moment we are designating our tithes to separate needs which do not get sent to the Baptist Union.

We actually are fairly happy with the church other than this issue, and the music. The Independent Baptist Church we were attending actually turned toward Calvinism, believe it or not. But, I will never speak out against a church that holds high standards and does not compromise. It really bothers me when people get upset at an individual who only wants to promote the straight and narrow path that our Lord has set out for us.

Frank

 

[jed101]

What do you think about this Scribe? I know your heart is in the right place.

 

[Chemnitz]

In reference to the OP, no, I have never considered joining an IBC. Far too heterodox for me to even consider joining.

 

[lori4dogs]

When they stray from Biblical doctrine.

As for the Catholics.
Calling the priests father. God is the only Father.
Praying repetitive words using the rosary beads.
Praying to saints and Mary.
The perpetual virginity of Mary.
Saying Peter wasn't married, when he was.
Sprinkling instead of full immersion for baptism.
All false beliefs.

Catholic doctrine

I checked out the 'catholic doctrine' link. It reminds me of something Jack Chick would come up with. Actually, when I was a Baptist I used to stand outside of Catholic churches and pass out Chick tracts to people after mass. I really regret that now as I have learned that I didn't know what the Catholic Church actually taught nor did I understand scripture (nor does Jack Chick!)

I suggest that you actually learn what the Catholic Church does teach regarding Mary, the rosary, baptism, etc. The website you are referring people to is very distorted and without valid arguments.

Calling priest Father? Lets see, you have a mother and you have a . . . . .? What do you call him? The bible also says 'call no one teacher' but then I suspect you do that too.

Repetitive prayers with the Rosary. I believe that bible warns about VAIN repetitive prayers. I don't think repetitive prayers are the problem. Many of us would be doing good to repeat many of our prayers. BTW, the Rosary is a meditation on the life of Christ. I think it is great for contemplative prayer.

Although I am an Anglican and not a Roman Catholic, I now do my best to learn what Catholics do believe before I make claims about their church. You might want to actually check out one of their sites such as http://www.catholic.com/
and read what they have to say about the issues you listed above. I think we have an obligation to 'study to show ourselves approved'. Don't you?

 

[Born_in_Crewe]

People will be saved as long as they have repented and trusted in Jesus Christ. I don't think someone who is a Methodist for example is going to be sent to Hell for being in the "wrong" denomination.