Strong Drink (Deut. 14:26)

[saturneptune]

I would say that an overindulgence in sports has caused many a woman to depart from her man.

HankD

One can over indulge in anything: shopping, sports, eating, etc, etc, etc. If one lets something like that ruin a marriage, there was not much of one there in the first place. Alcohol causes a multitude of problems other habits do not, and often fatal.

 

[annsni]

How silly is the comparison of losing oneself in alcohol and sports. Sports never killed someone on the highways, caused the breakup of a marriage, or destroyed lives beyond hope.

Sports kills - we had a young man - 16 years old - who was killed playing lacrosse. There was recently a sports team that was killed when their bus went over an overpass. If they didn't play sports, they wouldn't have been killed.

Sports causes MANY marriage breakups - there was just a show on tonight about how sports fanatics neglect their wives and families.

I know someone who was injured playing sports and was ready to kill himself - he was convinced that his entire identity was wrapped up in the sports that he played.

 

[Sober_Baptist]

Sports kills - we had a young man - 16 years old - who was killed playing lacrosse. There was recently a sports team that was killed when their bus went over an overpass. If they didn't play sports, they wouldn't have been killed.

Sports causes MANY marriage breakups - there was just a show on tonight about how sports fanatics neglect their wives and families.

I know someone who was injured playing sports and was ready to kill himself - he was convinced that his entire identity was wrapped up in the sports that he played.

Dittos. To think only alchol causes problems is just not so.

 

[annsni]

Dittos. To think only alchol causes problems is just not so.

Yep - I can even put being a pastor in there and it would work in some cases I've seen too - sadly. These are pastors who were NOT listening to the Lord, apparently because they neglected their family and drove themselves and their families to the breaking point.

 

[johnp.]

The main problem from anything is if it masters you. To imagine that alcohol is evil in itself is wrong. Alcohol abuse, or to be abused by it, brings with it an image which others can see easily and it is therefore frowned upon easier.

john.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

The heart is indeed evil... deceitfully evil and desparately wicked. It is so evil that it imagines such vain things as 'God does not care if I drink in moderation' and 'There are commands against drunkenness but not against moderation'. It is even so evil as to accuse the Spotless and Sinless Son of Almighty God of creating alcohol for man's consumption.'

Yes, I agree the heart is evil to imagine such sinful thoughts!

 

[annsni]

The heart is indeed evil... deceitfully evil and desparately wicked. It is so evil that it imagines such vain things as 'God does not care if I drink in moderation' and 'There are commands against drunkenness but not against moderation'. It is even so evil as to accuse the Spotless and Sinless Son of Almighty God of creating alcohol for man's consumption.'

Yes, I agree the heart is evil to imagine such sinful thoughts!

But a heart that is being regenerated by the Holy Spirit is not so desperately wicked. You are treading on some dangerous ground saying that those here, who are truly saved by the blood of the Lamb are evil and wicked.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Apparently those who are claiming Christ and alcohol in their lives have ignored Christ's Holy Word when it says to abstain.

Apparently those who are claiming Christ yet say He created and gave alcohol to mankind are ignoring the clear truth written in His Word.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

But a heart that is being regenerated by the Holy Spirit is not so desperately wicked. You are treading on some dangerous ground saying that those here, who are truly saved by the blood of the Lamb are evil and wicked.

Since the Bible does indeed command abstinence from alcoholic beverage, HBSMN is not in err in his statement.

Would you have told John the Baptist he was wrong when he pointed out the sin people were walking in? Paui? Peter? The Lord Jesus Christ?

 

[AresMan]

Apparently those who are claiming Christ and alcohol in their lives have ignored Christ's Holy Word when it says to abstain.

Apparently those who are claiming Christ yet say He created and gave alcohol to mankind are ignoring the clear truth written in His Word.

Do you ever take alcoholic medicine when you are sick? Most over-the-counter medicine (such as Nyquil and Vicks 44) have proportionately more alcohol than wine.

Some things should be consumed in trace amounts, if at all. We need fat, but very little of it. During certain times, we may need alcohol, but very little of it. My opinion of alcohol is that it should be treated as medicine. I am a tee-totaler concerning drinking alcoholic beverages, and I may view going out for a "social drink" like going out for a "social aspirin." However, to say no alcoholic consumption is either ridiculous or hypocritical.

Now, back to the OP. During the annual tithe festivals, God allowed the people of Israel to eat unclean animals that were otherwise forbidden in the first half of the chapter. He also said that during the annual tithe festivals the people could drink wine and strong drink.

Deu 14:22 Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.
Deu 14:23 And thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always.
Deu 14:24 And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:
Deu 14:25 Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose:
Deu 14:26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine3196, or for strong drink7914, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,

3196 yayin From an unused root meaning to effervesce; wine (as fermented); by implication intoxication: - banqueting, wine, wine [-bibber].

7914 shêkâr From H7937; an intoxicant, that is, intensely alcoholic liquor: - strong drink, + drunkard, strong wine.

 

[rsr]

Folks, I don't care if you beat this thing to death once again, though the corpse is beginning to stink by this time.

However, do not engage in personal attacks against those whose study of the Scripture has led them to a different conclusion than you hold.

 

[annsni]

Since the Bible does indeed command abstinence from alcoholic beverage, HBSMN is not in err in his statement.

Would you have told John the Baptist he was wrong when he pointed out the sin people were walking in? Paui? Peter? The Lord Jesus Christ?

See, I see drunkenness as a sin - and I would wholly agree with both of you if you were talking drunkenness. But we're not. We're talking even a sip of wine. In that case, the Bible does not say that is a sin. I know you say it does. I know I and others say it doesn't. After hundreds of posts, neither one of us is going to convince another. I will not force you to drink. *I* will not drink. But I will not condemn a brother or sister for having a glass of wine with their dinner.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

well, annsni...

all I have to say is study, not with your own preconceived thoughts of what the Lord does require of His own, but with the desire to learn the truth. Because until you have the desire to learn what truly is written in the Word, you will not see it.

The verse in Romans 14 was posted earlier which clearly shows abstinence... yet it is ignored.

Several other verses in the New Testament command abstinence as well.

The Greek for the word 'sober' in 4 verses is the word 'nepho' which means 'to abstain from alcohol.

In Paul's time, the Greeks who read his letters using the word 'nepho' understood they were to abstain.

The problem is the change in language has hidden the true meaning of the Word so people do not see 'to abstain from alcohol'.

Regardless, it is there. And God's Word is true. Abstinence is commanded in the lives of those who would be in God's body.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

nhjw nepho nay'-fo
of uncertain affinity: to abstain from wine (keep sober), i.e. (figuratively) be discreet:--be sober, watch.

Abstinence is clearly taught in the 4 verses that use this Greek word, 'nepho'.

1 Thessalonians 5:6
1 Thessalonians 5:8
1 Peter 1:13
1 Peter 5:8

 

[AresMan]

I will say one thing. The Bible very often combines drunkenness with gluttony. I have ZERO respect for ANYONE who DARES to preach against smoking, drinking, drugs, etc. and yet can't control his appetite for food. Preachers who preach against tobacco, alcohol, and drugs, yet cannot preach against gluttony are nothing but HYPOCRITES, PHARISEES, and LIARS!

I am not talking about being overweight (although such can be a common result of gluttony). I am talking about an addiction to food--an addiction to burgers and fries, chips and soda. I am talking about those who have to feel full at every meal and are already thinking about what they want to eat for the next meal. I am talking about those who would struggle to fast for one day because it would be so unlike the normal course of events.

I am also talking about those who are addicted to the drug that is caffeine: soda, coffee, tea. People who DARE to preach against alcohol, yet can't survive a single day without expresso in the morning, at lunch, at dinner, and need caffeine to go to sleep. Addictions to anything of any kind are wrong, period. Those who condemn someone for taking an occasional harmless controlled sip of alcohol, yet would suffer a nervous breakdown without their precious caffeine are HYPOCRITES!



There. Tension relieved. Ahhhhh.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Since I am careful about my appetite, you cannot have a beef against me for teaching the truth of God's Word concerning alcohol, I reckon

I also do not have a problem with caffeine. I reckon I can continue unless you want to try to accuse me of drinking water??

 

[standingfirminChrist]

An occasional controlled sip of alcohol is not harmless, my friend. Since God's Word commands abstinence, even a sip is disobeying God's Word. Disobedience is not harmless.
The wrath of God abideth on the children of disobedience.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

I will say one thing. The Bible very often combines drunkenness with gluttony. I have ZERO respect for ANYONE who DARES to preach against smoking, drinking, drugs, etc. and yet can't control his appetite for food. Preachers who preach against tobacco, alcohol, and drugs, yet cannot preach against gluttony are nothing but HYPOCRITES, PHARISEES, and LIARS!

I am not talking about being overweight (although such can be a common result of gluttony). I am talking about an addiction to food--an addiction to burgers and fries, chips and soda. I am talking about those who have to feel full at every meal and are already thinking about what they want to eat for the next meal. I am talking about those who would struggle to fast for one day because it would be so unlike the normal course of events.

I am also talking about those who are addicted to the drug that is caffeine: soda, coffee, tea. People who DARE to preach against alcohol, yet can't survive a single day without expresso in the morning, at lunch, at dinner, and need caffeine to go to sleep. Addictions to anything of any kind are wrong, period. Those who condemn someone for taking an occasional harmless controlled sip of alcohol, yet would suffer a nervous breakdown without their precious caffeine are HYPOCRITES!



There. Tension relieved. Ahhhhh.

does another's drinking of coffee, tea, or soda in another person make the command to abstain from alcohol of none effect to the other person?

 

[AresMan]

An occasional controlled sip of alcohol is not harmless, my friend. Since God's Word commands abstinence, even a sip is disobeying God's Word.

Of course, this has still not adequately been proven. There are verses that speak of permitting wine/strong drink and there are verses that say to avoid it/be careful/be not deceived. The proper conclusion is that it can be abused, just like anything else.

The Bible has much to say about slothfulness. Does this mean that any sleep is wrong?

Pro 6:9 How long wilt thou sleep, O sluggard? when wilt thou arise out of thy sleep?
Pro 6:10 Yet a little sleep, a little slumber, a little folding of the hands to sleep:
Pro 6:11 So shall thy poverty come as one that traveleth, and thy want as an armed man.

The sluggard abuses sleep. The wise takes a little sleep.

The Bible has much to say about gluttony. Does this mean that eating food is wrong?

Pro 23:20 Be not among winebibbers; among riotous eaters of flesh:
Pro 23:21 For the drunkard and the glutton shall come to poverty: and drowsiness shall clothe a man with rags.

The Bible mentions not being "brought under the power of any[thing]." Does that mean that we must avoid the intake or activity of anything that some abuse and thus are brought under the power of the same?

1Ti 5:23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.

Who here occasionally takes an alcoholic medicine for ailments?

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

If you do a contextual study on 1 Timothy 5 and Paul's advice to Timothy, you will find that the wine Paul prescribed was not alcoholic.