Strong/Weak Christians

[drfuss]

Concerning haveing to agree with the pastor and church on doctrinal issues, I have attended a church for the past 19 years that I disagree with on some doctrinal issues. I am not one that believes something because my pastor, church or TV/radio teacher believes it. IMO, having to sort out doctrinal issues for myself has made me a stronger Christian. Also, I have found that most, but not all, doctrinal differences are a matter of using different terminolgy and definitions.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

The above reminds me of a recent situation. The man was very active in his church, but started to withdraw from church activities and started looking around at other churches to attend. He gave me a few books he had read saying they were very good. After reading the books myself, I suspected what the problem was.

The books were written by two pastors who had realatively large churches. The books described how the ideal church should function and critized churches in general for not living up to the authors idea of an ideal church. The book even suggested that churches were a detriment to the Kingdom of God in many cases. The man, who gave me the books to read, started finding fault with his church and the people in it and started looking for a better church. He did not change churches because his family resisted.

After reading the books, I pointed out to him that the authors had the luxury of being idealistic and not having to deal with real people and real problems; and that one of the functions of the church is to deal with real people and real problems that people have. He has since became active in his church as before.

The authors of those books have both left their church and are doing other things such as speaking tours. Perhaps, they wanted to live in an ideal world and not have to deal with the real situations in a church.

I dont understand how what I have said has anything whatsoever to do with your comment. You want to draw a better, more lucid conclusion?

 

[drfuss]

I dont understand how what I have said has anything whatsoever to do with your comment. You want to draw a better, more lucid conclusion?

EWF writes:
....."not be tied to people who are comfortable in their lifestyles to the point of killing their own church cause they are so lazy that they cant go out to people, especially when people come into the church to learn & grow. No my brother, rather let the dead bury the dead & refuse to be a part of that dead mentality."

The man who provided me the books, was looking for a church who did all the idealistic good things listed in the books. It appears you are also looking for an ideal good church. You have not found a church because there are not any ideally good churches. They are all filled with sinners (including the Pastor), most of whom have been saved by grace.

Two questions:

1. In your post, you said: "they are so lazy that they can't go out to people, especially when people come into the church to learn & grow."
Are you saying that they did not come to you as a visitor as you thought they should? Or did you observe this about other visitors.

2. Did you get your theology from reading any books in addition to the Bible? Or was it from a minister or a friend?

 

[JesusFan]

EWF writes:
....."not be tied to people who are comfortable in their lifestyles to the point of killing their own church cause they are so lazy that they cant go out to people, especially when people come into the church to learn & grow. No my brother, rather let the dead bury the dead & refuse to be a part of that dead mentality."

The man who provided me the books, was looking for a church who did all the idealistic good things listed in the books. It appears you are also looking for an ideal good church. You have not found a church because there are not any ideally good churches. They are all filled with sinners (including the Pastor), most of whom have been saved by grace.

Two questions:

1. In your post, you said: "they are so lazy that they can't go out to people, especially when people come into the church to learn & grow."
Are you saying that they did not come to you as a visitor as you thought they should? Or did you observe this about other visitors.

2. Did you get your theology from reading any books in addition to the Bible? Or was it from a minister or a friend?

Also, was concerned that there might very well be solid Baptist churches near him, its that they might have chosen to not use label of baptists within their name!

 

[CF1]

Earth, Wind, Fire,

Check out this website

Reformed Baptist Church Directory - New Jersey

Even if you have to drive a ways away to be spiritually fed, that is better than trying to be a lone ranger Christian. God designed Christians to grow together, not alone.

Hebrews 10
24 and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, 25 not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Earth, Wind, Fire,

Check out this website

Reformed Baptist Church Directory - New Jersey

Even if you have to drive a ways away to be spiritually fed, that is better than trying to be a lone ranger Christian. God designed Christians to grow together, not alone.

Hebrews 10
24 and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, 25 not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near.

Why do I have to drive 40-50 miles to fellowship with people.....and through NJ traffic. How am I supposed to get fed the word when I cant make meetings because of snow conditions, traffic & winter darkness. Noooooo. Where are the local community churches and/or interactive internet programs. God, the emergent church has all that!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

EWF writes:
....."not be tied to people who are comfortable in their lifestyles to the point of killing their own church cause they are so lazy that they cant go out to people, especially when people come into the church to learn & grow. No my brother, rather let the dead bury the dead & refuse to be a part of that dead mentality."

The man who provided me the books, was looking for a church who did all the idealistic good things listed in the books. It appears you are also looking for an ideal good church. You have not found a church because there are not any ideally good churches. They are all filled with sinners (including the Pastor), most of whom have been saved by grace.

Two questions:

1. In your post, you said: "they are so lazy that they can't go out to people, especially when people come into the church to learn & grow."
Are you saying that they did not come to you as a visitor as you thought they should? Or did you observe this about other visitors.

No, Im saying that people who do anything to go out to community receive no help (this Ive observed) plus I have asked for guidance from the pastor & all he wants to do is re-baptize me because he has nobody coming in to want to be members so why not pressure me & so he has to make a show. And Ive also seen a pastor (who was coming in to substitute when they were pastor less) berate the entire congregation for never extending themselves to the community. This happened after the man was there for months & observed their lack of motivation. Oh he offered suggestions, that were promptly ignored.

2. Did you get your theology from reading any books in addition to the Bible? I Got my theology from the Spirit & started reading books after my conversion. Or was it from a minister or a friend?

Quite the Contrary :laugh: it was my Lord

Start with the Holy Spirit then Pink, Calvin,Whitefield, Luther, Wesley, Boice,Owen, RC Sproul, Martyn Lloyd-Jones, Bunyan, Allison, Augustine, Edwards, BB Warfield, Kuyper, Spurgeon the Westminster Confessions then the 1689 London Confessions, lots of commentary by MacArthur, Al Mohler, Ryken, Machen as well as many of the PB Pastors & Im probably not even scratching the surface.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

THE MAN IN THE ARENA
Excerpt from the speech "Citizenship In A Republic"

T. Roosevelt

It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.

Oh......I like Teddy Roosevelt too:smilewinkgrin:

 

[Amy.G]

Start with the Holy Spirit then Pink, Calvin,Whitefield, Luther, Wesley, Boice,Owen, RC Sproul, Martyn Lloyd-Jones, Allison, Augustine, Edwards, BB Warfield, Kuyper, Spurgeon the Westminster Confessions then the 1689 London Confessions, lots of commentary by MacArthur, Al Mohler, Ryken, Machen as well as many of the PB Pastors & Im probably not even scratching the surface.

All that in 18 months? Did you have time to fit the bible in there somewhere? Who advised you to read all that?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

All that in 18 months? Did you have time to fit the bible in there somewhere? Who advised you to read all that?

After conversion, I got this explosive desire to learn & grow. Nobody advised me. I could understand things I had no interest in before....things I hated to do, I suddenly enjoyed learning things I considered rubbish before salvation.

 

[Amy.G]

After conversion, I got this explosive desire to learn & grow. Nobody advised me. I could understand things I had no interest in before....things I hated to do, I suddenly enjoyed learning things I considered rubbish before salvation.

I did too but it was a hunger for God's word not books by authors I'd never heard of. Somebody suggested those books to you unless you're claiming the Holy Spirit whispered them into your ear.

Somebody has had a big influence on you becoming reformed/Calvinist....whatever...and I don't think, no I know that you haven't had the time needed to study the bible, nor the Christian maturity to learn both sides of the issue in 18 months. And certainly not all on your own without any church affiliation.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I did too but it was a hunger for God's word not books by authors I'd never heard of. Somebody suggested those books to you unless you're claiming the Holy Spirit whispered them into your ear.

Somebody has had a big influence on you becoming reformed/Calvinist....whatever...and I don't think, no I know that you haven't had the time needed to study the bible, nor the Christian maturity to learn both sides of the issue in 18 months. And certainly not all on your own without any church affiliation.

LOL! You study the bible very effectively with people who have devoted their lives to God & then written commentary on it....its very stimulating. The 1st thing I did was go to the Walmart & buy a NKJV (big print) without commentary. Then you go to the Internet & find books on-line that can enlighten you. And since I did not understand Orthodox theology, I targeted that 1st. Place the NKJ at my desk, together with some older "Mens Devotional" NIV & then you dig in. I suddenly understood stuff & I found pretty much everyone I read gave me another answer to questions that concerned me. In doing so, I was able to gain new appreciation for the Reformed side.

Yes I ask questions in BB & I get answers, so guys like GLFREDERIKS, LUKE, ICONO, Steve (I sometimes read his blogs) & others..... In sorry, Im forgetting my PB brothers, have all made reading suggestions......the only one Ive not tackled is the"History of the Jews" (that one is a bit much for me at the moment).

But if your asking me if I have any mentors, Svengali's etc.....nope!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Perhaps I need to take a new look (with fresh eyes) at the landscape of New Jersey to asertain where the lord wants me. since there are no True Churches in my area maybe the Lord is requiring that I take an unconventional approach to spreading the word. Perhaps I have to go into Catholic communities & churches & teach the bible to the Catholics & with time convert them to the true faith ....I think the lord is putting this on my heart.

The books Ive read & continue to read will have to sustain me in my missions to the Catholics.....so that will be my own Great Commission rather than try to make a horse race out of these dead apostate churches that claim the blood of Christ but do not do His work.