students and alcohol

Yah, that's right. Insult my character based on your non-exsistant evidence.

I myself attend an IFB church and have a pastor I consider very scholarly. He is not famous however. My challenge was to give 10 *famous* IFB pastors who are scholarly (in likeness to the orginal challenge for 10 famous IFB pastors opinions on drinking). You did not provide any. I'll make it a little easier for you, give me 8 *famous* IFB pastors who are also scholars.

 

I think I would rather see an empty beer bottle with coins in it than an empty Coke bottle with coins in it. You can get over a beer, but diabetes is forever....

 

jw,

give me the names of 10 famous IFB pastors........period.

There aren't that many who are nationally known for ANYTHING.

And your comment went beyond just saying they aren't well-known....you implied that the vast majority of IFB preachers are unlearned and unscholarly.....

I can give you the names of quite a few IFB pastors/preachers who are very welleducated, scholarly men, but you probably won't know their names. Big deal?

Im not saying I like how some others were responding in here either, but your posts were especially egregious.

 

DEFINE WHAT YOU MEAN BY SCHOLARS JW

 

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh May God have MERCY!!!!!!

 

Why do you need to find advice on this situation.
Is it a christian college? If it is empty beer cans for banks is out of character.
Is it a secular school? If it is and the person isnt a christian making a issue over this is not worth it unless you have been kind and Christlike to this person beforehand.
If the person is a christian what can it hurt to say hey why do you store change in beer cans instead of somethingelse? Then you can debate the matter amongst yourselves.
Do what you think you yourself should do and forget about having 50 opinions on the matter.

I don't drink booze at all. Some christians do that is life. I'm going to take care of myself. God can take care of the rest. If you come to me for counsel concerning booze I'm going to tell you to never touch it and here is why.
I have people in my own family who love the Lord. They like to sip their wine. I love em. I believe they will be in heaven. I still don't drink it myself. Even if you think moderate drinking is allowed scripturally I say there is still Scripture principles given that maintains abstinence is the wiser past. We still should not hold back our fellowship as individual christians from those who drink. Now going to a wine drinking church and things like that is another matter to me personally.

 

jw, I don't envy your pastor. I wouldn't trade places with him for all the tea in China.

 

Here is why I would teach abstinence. Your first drink could make you a lifelong drunk. If you want take that risk I say knock yourself out. You'll regret it the rest of your natural born life.
If your a parent and you drink moderately who is to say if your kids take a drink because you did that they are not going to be drunks? If that happens you'll stand before Christ at the judgment for how you handled the stewardship of the kids he gave you. It could have been your selfish desire to drink moderately that gave your child permission to take that first drink that turned him or her into a wino.
Who knows what a kid is going to do? Better to take the abstinence path.

 

I'd rather have the Hand of God on my heart and be anointed by the Holy Spirit than be "scholarly" any day, anyway. God isn't impressed with formal degrees.

 

BACK TO THE ORIGINAL ISSUE:

Sample, I'm 29 and still collect change. At Pier 1 Imports I bought a long glass tube that's really wide and has a cork top. It was only 10 or 15 dollars, and it holds 300 - 400 dollars worth of change. We actually paid for my wedding cake six months ago with it!! Share with your friend your conviction, if you really feel it's warranted. Or even better, go buy him a better container. Truth is, you can't be the Holy Spirit in his life... only God can.

 

City Missions all over America are filled with people who once had wonderful careers and fine educations and lots of material wealth, but booze (what a wiley, crafty lover) took it all away.

 

<nod> I'd probably buy that.

I meant no such thing. I'm an IFB myself and think highly of learned men of the faith. My point is simply that the IFB movement as a whole isn't concerned nearly enough about scholarship as they are with how big your church is.

Every large, well known IFB church I know of is pastored by men who are entertainers. They wouldn't know an expository sermon if it slapped them in the face.

[quote[I can give you the names of quite a few IFB pastors/preachers who are very welleducated, scholarly men, but you probably won't know their names. Big deal?[/quote]

I never said, nor implied there were not educated scholarly IFB pastors. I did say, very clearly, that there are little to no famous IFB scholarly pastors. Scholarship doesn't draw a large crowd in IFB circles, ranting on women in pants does. Expository messages do not draw a large crowd in IFB circles, telling good stories and using funny illustrations does.

Why, because I pointed out the achilles heel of the IFB movement? I'm an IFB, if I insult all of IFB I insult myself.

I'm just tired of going to IFB meetings like Southwide and seeing nothing but a Christian pep rally with no meat.

I'm tired of seeing slanderous statements in the news about IFB's who run their mouths and say something unbiblical without thinking.

If people don't wake up to where the movements heading, it'll end up right in the intellectual toilet.

 

(walks by the bottle)

(puts in his $0.02)

(walks away quietly, chuckling at his own clever humor)

 

Yeah, because that was Christlike.

 

Joshua Rhodes, I got you beat. I'm 40, and still college change. I'm now in a place financially where I don't have to. But mamma always taught us to have respect for money and not to waste it. So in my home office, I have a jar where all my spare change goes.

Now that I think of it, it's a Dom Perignon bottle that I found in an old box, and thought it was nice looking. I can guarantee that it can't be a bad witness, as there's no way I could afford Dom Perignon!!!

 

sorry jw, I don't know who, what or where Southwide is, so I don't know what you are referencing.

Otherwise, I think its still mostly a stereotype foisted on us by others to say that IFBs downplay true scholarship. The attitude we disagree with is that of being puffed up with one's education. I see that attitude as a whole lot more prevalent among others than any idea that education itself is worthless.

 

Its a large IFB conference that is held every year in Chattanooga, TN. It's mostly pastors from the east coast. (Well, actually two years ago they started inviting SBC pastors to join as well - so I should say, until recently it was IFB... and I honestly have enjoyed some of the SBC pastors more).

Sterotypes aren't always inaccurate. If scholarship is important, name some people who are big in the IFB movement who are true scholars. I can only think of one off the top of my head, Dr. James Price (was the OT editor for the NKJV) - and really he isn't even all that well known.

If you've been to any big IFB conferences, think about the people they have speak there. Ask yourself if they are really teaching the Bible or if they are telling stories, stirring emotions, or railing on some extrabiblical standard or opinion.

 

Isn't it amazing that christians can stuff their face and get fat and round and compltely out of shape but hardly a word is mentioned. Someone takes a drink and the majority want to condemn that person. Some preachers need to look in the mirror at their ever expanding waistlines and realize there are many ways to commit sin against your body besides drinking.

 

Dr. Paul Chappell comes to mind.

The few big conferences Ive been to have challenged and stirred me spiritually. I think you've allowed a critical spirit to take over your heart.

 

Pot: Yo Kettle!
Kettle: What up pot?
Pot: Yer black!