-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Study of John 3:16
- Thread starter Van
- Start date
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
Did you have any say so in your natural birth?... Then you have no say so in your spiritual birth either!... This how you come into the world:
Psalms 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
This how you're born again:
Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Brother Glen
Same old straw man false arguments
John 3:17 (NASB)
“For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but so that the world might be saved through Him.
God did not send the Son into human society to inflict punishment upon humanity, but in order that humanity might be saved by means of Him.
Here we see that a reference to human society, addresses members of that group, some, all, or none, rather than an action necessarily received by everyone comprising humanity. Here not all of humanity will be saved as few find the narrow path that leads to life.
“For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but so that the world might be saved through Him.
God did not send the Son into human society to inflict punishment upon humanity, but in order that humanity might be saved by means of Him.
Here we see that a reference to human society, addresses members of that group, some, all, or none, rather than an action necessarily received by everyone comprising humanity. Here not all of humanity will be saved as few find the narrow path that leads to life.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
That is only part of the Truth of the Gospel
It clearly goes on to say in the context, "Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the Name of the only Son of God" verse 18
Those who refuse to believe in the One True Gospel, are already condemned to eternal punishment, which verse 36 goes on to say, "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him"
The Coming of Jesus Christ brought both salvation for those who repent of their sins, and believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ; and judgement for those who refuse to believe and accept what God demands in His Infallible Word!
Agree.
'Whosoever believes' are also qualified in:
John 3:3-5 - before one can enter or even see the kingdom he must first be born from above.
John 3:14-15 - the fiery serpent was there for 'everyone that was bitten' Numbers 21:8. Those not bitten felt no need to gaze upon it.
John 3:21 - Those 'coming to the light' do so because God has [already] wrought within them.
I think you are working a tad too hard to cite issues with this thread. No one said or suggested John 3:16-17 presents the entire gospel. But where I totally disagree is your suggestion that Jesus brought "judgement" for those who refuse to believe. They were condemned already. It is the lack of belief, rather than the refusal to believe when the opportunity occurs, than results in eternal punishment. Yes, refusal adds to the wrath stored against those who refusal, but Jesus did not bring judgement, as it had already occurred.
God loved humanity in this way, He gave His uniquely divine Son so that everyone believing into Him will not perish, but have everlasting life.
1) There are some who claim every lost person is innately unable to believe in Christ until they are altered by "irresistible grace." That view is inconsistent with John 3:16. Clearly the verse does not read, everyone irresistibly caused to believe into Him.
2) There are some who claim God does not love humanity in general, but only a pre-selectied few within humanity. Same group denies God actually desires all people to be saved. Here the idea they falsely claim is God desires all previously selected people to be saved.
1) There are some who claim every lost person is innately unable to believe in Christ until they are altered by "irresistible grace." That view is inconsistent with John 3:16. Clearly the verse does not read, everyone irresistibly caused to believe into Him.
2) There are some who claim God does not love humanity in general, but only a pre-selectied few within humanity. Same group denies God actually desires all people to be saved. Here the idea they falsely claim is God desires all previously selected people to be saved.
Such nonsense. 2 Thessalonians 2:13 says we were chosen for salvation through faith in the truth. You somehow construe this to mean we were born anew out of the blue, then caused to believe irresistibly, then chosen for salvation. Utter nonsense.
Has anyone mentioned the fact that John 3:16 is a statement of fact, and not an invitation?
This is an invitation:
28 Come unto me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light. Mt 11
This is a statement of fact:
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life. Jn 3
This is an invitation:
28 Come unto me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light. Mt 11
This is a statement of fact:
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life. Jn 3
Romans 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Brother Glen
DaveXR650
Well-Known Member
"And he has employed the universal term whosoever, both to invite all indiscriminately to partake of life, and to cut off every excuse from unbelievers.... yet he shows himself to be reconciled to the whole world, when he invites all men without exception to the faith of Christ, which is nothing else than an entrance into life." John ...... Calvin, (not Owen), in his commentary on John.
I guess there's always somebody that doesn't get the word.
God loved humanity in this way, He gave His uniquely divine Son so that everyone believing into Him will not perish, but have everlasting life.
1) There are some who claim every lost person is innately unable to believe in Christ until they are altered by "irresistible grace." That view is inconsistent with John 3:16. Clearly the verse does not read, everyone irresistibly caused to believe into Him.
2) There are some who claim God does not love humanity in general, but only a pre-selectied few within humanity. Same group denies God actually desires all people to be saved. Here the idea they falsely claim is God desires all previously selected people to be saved.
3) If God is Omnipotent, He has the power to know whatever He chooses and to not know whatever He chooses not to know.
Those that deny this believe not in the God of the Bible, but the god of their own invention.
1) There are some who claim every lost person is innately unable to believe in Christ until they are altered by "irresistible grace." That view is inconsistent with John 3:16. Clearly the verse does not read, everyone irresistibly caused to believe into Him.
2) There are some who claim God does not love humanity in general, but only a pre-selectied few within humanity. Same group denies God actually desires all people to be saved. Here the idea they falsely claim is God desires all previously selected people to be saved.
3) If God is Omnipotent, He has the power to know whatever He chooses and to not know whatever He chooses not to know.
Those that deny this believe not in the God of the Bible, but the god of their own invention.
I think where the wheel is running off for you is that you do not understand "the kingdom" that is the subject of John 3 and have not considered it as a major Bible doctrine, one that is a major theme from Genesis 3 when God gave the dominion of the earth to Adam only to have it usurped by the serpent. Do you know that the apostles and disciples of the Lord Jesus Christ ministered with him for the entire course of his public ministry on earth and when he was crucified, not a single one of them went to the tomb to see him rise from the dead, and did not believe those who did see him after he rose from the dead? Why do you think that is? It is because Jesus Christ was preaching the gospel, the good news, the glad tidings of the kingdom of God and his disciples were preaching the same thing to Israel. How does one enter the kingdom, according to Jesus who is to be the King in the kingdom? It is by submitting to his authority under God the Father, by faith, and being born again. How can that be? It can be when Jesus Christ dies the death of his people and that fact is pictured by the serpent on the pole in Numbers. He became sin for us who knew no sin.
Of course we read on past John 3 and arrived at chapter 19 and find out his people rejected him and put him to death and said we will not have this man to rule over us.
"He came unto his own and his own received him not, but to as many (which was not many at all) as received him, to them gave he power (authority) to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name."
Then the next verse -
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Would you please notice that John 1 is in the past tense. This means that John is writing from an historical framework. He wrote this gospel in 90 AD. The way God birthed men is clearly laid out in the New Testament, which was written by these men who ministered with him. It was by God giving his Gift of the Spirit to permanently indwell men upon their repentance and faith in Jesus Christ, who died for us and was buried, and rose again from the dead. Believing this is how I am born again and am a son of God. It is how I can understand the kingdom of God and it is how I know I am in the kingdom of God. God opened the door of faith to us in Acts 10 and it is still open today.
Except a man is born again he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. This means you and me and every one who is alive today.
Paul and Barnabas at the end of the first missionary campaign of Paul;
Acts 14: 26 And thence sailed to Antioch, from whence they had been recommended to the grace of God for the work which they fulfilled.
27 And when they were come, and had gathered the church together, they rehearsed all that God had done with them, and how he had opened the door of faith unto the Gentiles.
28 And there they abode long time with the disciples.
Acts 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago (in Acts 10) God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
God in his providence makes transitions according to the workings of men. Who would be so bold as to teach God would sacrifice his Son for sinners and then not receive them when they come? Go out, he said, and compel them to come in that my house might be full.
Praise God for a God like that.
It is not too late to make your own transition and believe God.
1) You inserted from the beginning, but did not say from the beginning of what? God chose those whose faith in Christ He credited as righteousness from the beginning of the New Covenant.
2) You inserted "to hollowing of the Spirit," but did not say what you think your obscure phrase means.
a) Baptized (transferred) into Christ's body spiritually?
b) Sealed within Christ's body?
c) Made holy and blameless by the washing of regeneration?
d) Taught (tutored) by the Spirit into maturity?
God loved humanity in this way, He gave His uniquely divine Son so that everyone believing into Him will not perish, but have everlasting life.
1) There are some who claim every lost person is innately unable to believe in Christ until they are altered by "irresistible grace." That view is inconsistent with John 3:16. Clearly the verse does not read, everyone irresistibly caused to believe into Him.
2) There are some who claim God does not love humanity in general, but only a pre-selectied few within humanity. Same group denies God actually desires all people to be saved. Here the idea they falsely claim is God desires all previously selected people to be saved.
3) If God is Omnipotent, He has the power to know whatever He chooses and to not know whatever He chooses not to know.
Those that deny this believe not in the God of the Bible, but the god of their own invention.
1) There are some who claim every lost person is innately unable to believe in Christ until they are altered by "irresistible grace." That view is inconsistent with John 3:16. Clearly the verse does not read, everyone irresistibly caused to believe into Him.
2) There are some who claim God does not love humanity in general, but only a pre-selectied few within humanity. Same group denies God actually desires all people to be saved. Here the idea they falsely claim is God desires all previously selected people to be saved.
3) If God is Omnipotent, He has the power to know whatever He chooses and to not know whatever He chooses not to know.
Those that deny this believe not in the God of the Bible, but the god of their own invention.