Study shows many Evangelicals believe many ways to get to heaven

[Karen]

I'm a little suspicious of the survey. It doesn't match with my experience among Evangelicals. It does, however, match with the so called mainline Proststants. I doubt if Barna has mischaracterized Evangelicals, but I also believe his questions must have been a mile wide. When you ask a broad enough question, you will often get an overly broad answer.

My initial thoughts too. What is troubling though is that this is a followup on an earlier poll this year. The earlier one was worded in a way that other religions could have meant: do you, a Baptist, think a Methodist can be saved?

This pinned things down far more clearly.
But yet many people still could have heard the question in a confused manner. There will be people in Heaven from every tribe and tongue and people group. There will be lots of ex Muslims and ex Hindus in Heaven.
Perhaps SOME of the poll respondents were thinking of God's ability to call people from whatever situation in which they are. NOT that a Buddhist goes to Heaven for being a great Buddhist.

 

[Marcia]

Tell us how your church stacks up as being orthodox compared to what George Barna wrote.

From the book Growing True Disciples by George Barna , pages 128 - 132
....snipped

Will all due respect, this seems off-topic. We're discussing the view of more than one way to heaven, not discipleship (which is a great topic but is not the topic here).

Whether Christians are being good disciples or not has nothing to do with whether the way to eternal life is through Christ alone. This post seems to be evading the topic and/or creating a diversion from it.

 

[Bob Farnaby]

Sadly I don't find the survey result surprising. Amongst the Christians I know (folk who I have no reason to doubt their salvation) both personally and on the net I have heard the following alternatives to belief in Christ as Saviour sincerely expressed.

• The Jews will be saved because of God's promise to Abraham (or similar)
• If someone is sincere in their beliefs they will be saved.
• If they have not heard the gospel in their own language they will be saved
• If they are members of the church they will be saved
• If they are married to a believer they will be saved
• If they are the child of a believer they will be saved
• If you were baptised (almost any mode) you will be saved
  
• If they have a hard life (poverty or health) on earth God will save them
• All children who don't reach the age of discretion (whatever that is) will be saved
• Children of believers are saved until they rebel and hence stop being saved.

Probably have missed some, but I'm sure most folk here will have heard them all and more. Indeed, reading some posts some are believed on this board.

Sad

Regards
Bob

 

[gb93433]

Will all due respect, this seems off-topic. We're discussing the view of more than one way to heaven, not discipleship (which is a great topic but is not the topic here).

It was in response to the assertion that Barna was a heretic. It was a defense of his actual position from one of his books not just merely gossip.

 

[Marcia]

Sadly I don't find the survey result surprising. Amongst the Christians I know (folk who I have no reason to doubt their salvation) both personally and on the net I have heard the following alternatives to belief in Christ as Saviour sincerely expressed.

• The Jews will be saved because of God's promise to Abraham (or similar)
• If someone is sincere in their beliefs they will be saved.
• If they have not heard the gospel in their own language they will be saved
• If they are members of the church they will be saved
• If they are married to a believer they will be saved
• If they are the child of a believer they will be saved
• If you were baptised (almost any mode) you will be saved
• If they have a hard life (poverty or health) on earth God will save them
• All children who don't reach the age of discretion (whatever that is) will be saved
• Children of believers are saved until they rebel and hence stop being saved.

Probably have missed some, but I'm sure most folk here will have heard them all and more. Indeed, reading some posts some are believed on this board

I've heard the 2nd one above a lot. I actually encountered 3 men in one conservative church who argued with me (after I spoke to a class on the different views of God -- polytheism, atheism, monotheism, pantheism, etc. and gave examples) that good Muslims who have not heard the gospel are going to heaven! I actually thought at first that I had heard them wrong, but I didn't.

They said that a Muslim worships God, and if they are sincere, they will be saved.

Your points above don't include one I hear even more -- those who don't hear the gospel will be saved if they have some kind of belief in God, even if it's in another religion.

 

[gb93433]

Your points above don't include one I hear even more -- those who don't hear the gospel will be saved if they have some kind of belief in God, even if it's in another religion.

I heard something similar from some deacons in a church I pastored. They regularly invited the Mormon bishop to come and preach at the CBMC meeting some of them led. One of the deacons was a volunteer at the state level in the SBC on the church growth committee. He made the claim at a deacon's meeting that the bishop was a Christian. Imagine how shocked I was!

 

[Marcia]

I heard something similar from some deacons in a church I pastored. They regularly invited the Mormon bishop to come and preach at the CBMC meeting some of them led. One of the deacons was a volunteer at the state level in the SBC on the church growth committee. He made the claim at a deacon's meeting that the bishop was a Christian. Imagine how shocked I was!

Did he remain a deacon after this?

See the thread I just started in the News and Current Events Forum about Focus on the Family pulling an interview they published with Glenn Beck after an article criticized them for not revealing that Beck is Mormon.
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=1342313#post1342313

 

[just-want-peace]

Study shows many Evangelicals believe many ways to get to heaven

I'm sure much of this attitude comes from simply deciding that God meant something other than what He said in His word.

Once a person starts second-guessing God, it's only a short skip to making scripture say "what you believe", rather than you believing what scripture says.:tear::tear:

 

[gb93433]

Did he remain a deacon after this?

Yes, he is still there. That kind of thing happens more than you can imagine.

 

[TheOliveBranch]

I would think that people believe that someone is "good" and did good things in their life that they couldn't possibly be sent to hell, especially by a loving God.

I've seen this from my unsaved relatives. My husbands' grandmother died. She was a "good" Catholic. When My husband said she may not go to heaven because she never professed Jesus Christ as her Savior, the rest of the Christian (Catholic) relatives were ready to stone him for suggesting such a thought.

 

[gb93433]

My husbands' grandmother died. She was a "good" Catholic. When My husband said she may not go to heaven because she never professed Jesus Christ as her Savior, the rest of the Christian (Catholic) relatives were ready to stone him for suggesting such a thought.

That was probably not a wise thing to say at the moment. People in that situation who do not know what scripture teaches have a hope that is questioned even by them. There is nothing which could be done to change the eternal destiny of the dead. The gospel is preached to the living. It would have been best if the person who was dead were not judged by the living but rather to use the situation to talk about how the living could be sure they could have eternal life/salvation in Jesus Christ.

Luke 16: 19-31, "Now there was a rich man, and he habitually dressed in purple and fine linen, joyously living in splendor every day. "And a poor man named Lazarus was laid at his gate, covered with sores, and longing to be fed with the crumbs which were falling from the rich man's table; besides, even the dogs were coming and licking his sores. "Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried. "In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom. "And he cried out and said, `Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.' "But Abraham said, `Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony. `And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.' "And he said, `Then I beg you, father, that you send him to my father's house-- for I have five brothers--in order that he may warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.' "But Abraham said, `They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.' "But he said, `No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent!' "But he said to him, `If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.' "

 

[John of Japan]

I've heard the 2nd one above a lot. I actually encountered 3 men in one conservative church who argued with me (after I spoke to a class on the different views of God -- polytheism, atheism, monotheism, pantheism, etc. and gave examples) that good Muslims who have not heard the gospel are going to heaven! I actually thought at first that I had heard them wrong, but I didn't.

They said that a Muslim worships God, and if they are sincere, they will be saved.

Your points above don't include one I hear even more -- those who don't hear the gospel will be saved if they have some kind of belief in God, even if it's in another religion.

I recently had a fascinating discussion with Mr. U. in our church. I learned that his father was a member of the Kenpeitai (the Japanese version of the Gestapo). He was a sincere follower of State Shinto, and sincerely believed that Emperor Hirohito was God. Mr. U. said that his father had bragged about killing literally hundreds of people in the Emperor's name, and was absolutely unrepentant about it. After his death, the family found among his things many letters and even death threats from people who had suffered from his Kenpeitai work.

But hey, Kenpeitai Agent U. was sincere! He sincerely believed in his own "god," Emperor Hirohito. He sincerely tortured and killed hundreds of people for his "god."

I find the idea that simple sincerity in belief will get one to Heaven to be incredibly naive.

 

[Jim1999]

Solomon said, There is nothing new under the sun.....If one lives long enough, he has heard just about everything and it isn't always outside of the church walls.

I was teaching about seeming contradictions in the Bible during Wednesday night meetings. A stalwart of the faith, a Bible student of that church, a deacon, never-missed-a-Sunday member, said that his faith was shaken by what I was teaching........I was supporting the Bible and his faith was shaken. Be not amazed by what people believe and don't believe.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Me4Him]

I've seen this from my unsaved relatives. My husbands' grandmother died. She was a "good" Catholic. When My husband said she may not go to heaven because she never professed Jesus Christ as her Savior, the rest of the Christian (Catholic) relatives were ready to stone him for suggesting such a thought.

I dreamed last night
death came to me
and Heaven's gate swung wide
and with gentle grace
St Peter usher me inside

before my face stood friends
whom I had know on earth
some I considered as unfit
and of little worth

indignant words rose to my lips
but never were sit free
cause every face showed stunned surprise
not one expected "ME".

Author unknown.

I think we'll be surprised when we get to heaven too.