Submissiveness

[pastorjeff]

scrapper,

I answer for my family, and for the church. But how did I go about making the discissions? That will be examined. Submitting does not take away authority. Look at Christ. The cross and His Fathers will were submissive acta, but they did not take away His authority as God.

 

[Scrapper]

Originally posted by pastorjeff:
scrapper,

I answer for my family, and for the church. But how did I go about making the discissions? That will be examined. Submitting does not take away authority. Look at Christ. The cross and His Fathers will were submissive acta, but they did not take away His authority as God.

I am not sure but I believe that buttresses my pt.

Mr. Scrapper

 

[pastorjeff]

what was the point? Make it simple for my mind

 

[gb93433]

I am not responsible for what my wife does. I am only responsible for my actions. I am not to command my wife to submit, only God does that. I am commanded to love my wife. That takes every ounce I have when I compare my self to Christ.

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by James Newman:
I'm probably not going to vote, because I don't think I want to take an hour off work to throw a penny into a wishing well.

So you don't care about what happens to America? If the atheist organizations had their way they would have all Christians banned.

If you don't like who is on the ballot you can write someone in. Wasn't it one of our past presidents that was a write in candidate?

 

[mioque]

Scrapper
"Would be different if it was mandatory but its not."
"
200 kilometers to the south of where I am sitting it is.

 

[Gina B]

Originally posted by gb93433:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by James Newman:
I'm probably not going to vote, because I don't think I want to take an hour off work to throw a penny into a wishing well.

So you don't care about what happens to America? If the atheist organizations had their way they would have all Christians banned.

If you don't like who is on the ballot you can write someone in. Wasn't it one of our past presidents that was a write in candidate? </font>[/QUOTE]It doesn't matter if you care. Unless you live in Ohio or one of the other swing states this year, your vote doesn't mean diddly.
Here, read how elections work.
Your VOTE means NOTHING
Gina

 

[av1611jim]

Scripture is clear. Understanding is sometimes a little muddy.

What did Jesus say?
1. Love God.

To the wife; are you demonstrating your love for God by disobeying the husband you chose; when you know God has told you to obey him unconditionally?

To the husband; are you demonstrating your love to God by requiring your wife to disobey Him? "render unto Ceaser..."

When looking at the relevance of submission in matters of politics, I can find no prohibition for differing political views between spouses.
What I find is that we all must be subject to the powers that be, as they are ordained of God. That last statement was written in a time of an immensly ungodly, pagan, government. Kinda like our own. In this country, to be subject also partly includes the right to vote. However; does the husband believe that voting for the choices before us would cause one to further support this ungodliness?
There is much that we do not know about why the husband would ask/tell his wife not to vote.
I suppose he has his reasons. If he believes they are Biblical and he is being led of God, in his case then he is right. He is the spiritual leader of the home. Just as in the church, Christ is the head.

The wife does more to honor God and her husband by obedience that 'excercising' her 'rights'.

Do we not read that God is more pleased with obedience than sacrifice? A case could be made to apply that principle here.
Just my $.02 worth.
In His service;
Jim

 

[Rooster]

Originally posted by joyfulkeeperathome:
Rooster, while I agree with you that it is the wife's responsibility before God to be submissive in all areas (as long as they are not in direct defiance to God which this hypothetical situation is not a sin). However, I do have to tell you that the Bible does command us as wives to love our husbands. It is in Titus. Chapter 2 is talking about what the aged women are to teach the younger women. I'll pick up in verse 4. "That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children." Right there it does command us to love our husbands!!! In the next verse it tells us to be obedient to our husbands. So, we have to do both (which I gladly do most days....I'm not perfect, but I try to be a submissive wife.)

So, anyway, this is how I see it from the Bible.....

Joyfulkeeper, thank you for that insight, that is the first time that I have seen in the Bible for a woman to love her husband.

 

[Rooster]

Originally posted by pastorjeff:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Rooster:
Here is the Bibles take on the husband/wife relationship: In the Bible it commands women to be submisive to thier husbands, in the Bible it commands men to love thier wives, no where in the Bible does it command the wife to love her husband, and nowhere in the Bible does it command a husband to be submisive to thier wife, this is the chemistry to a healthy, happy mariage, according to the Bible. now if you want to live your life in rebelion to Gods word, then that is between you and God, but if a husband has a wife that will not submitt to her, he should still go on loving her, as God commands, and if a wife has a husband that does not love her then she should go on submitting to him,as God commands, not to please the spouse, but to please God, after all you were the one to marry the idiot, right?

The scripyure does tell the husband to submit to his wife:

Eph. 5:21-- Submitting yourselves one to another in fear of God.

This sets the whole stage for what follows through 6:9. </font>[/QUOTE]Jeff I think you are streching it a bit here the passage used there is refering to the believer, not husband and wife relationship, and if it was refering to the husband wife relationship, it would mean submitting to the will of God, wives: subitting to your husband , Husbands: loving your wives. Submitting your selves one to another in the fear of God. Which is to say, in accord with what pleases God.

 

[pastorjeff]

Sure, how is it stretching it though? If my wife is a believer can I not submit to her? I find no problem in this. When it comes to differences and hard issues, it may lie on my shoulders, but there are times in my male stupidity when my wife has to talk some sense into me. This would be a time that after she has presented the facts and I find she is right, I would not be very intellegent if I didn't submit. Nothing unbiblical about listening and thinking and changing your mind if you are wrong.

 

[Rooster]

Originally posted by gb93433:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by James Newman:
I'm probably not going to vote, because I don't think I want to take an hour off work to throw a penny into a wishing well.

So you don't care about what happens to America? If the atheist organizations had their way they would have all Christians banned.

If you don't like who is on the ballot you can write someone in. Wasn't it one of our past presidents that was a write in candidate?
</font>[/QUOTE]I think the point that Brother James was makeing ( I think) is that no matter what we vote, as citizens, our vote dosent mean anything, because the electorial college votes are the only that matter, our votes as citizens dosent even count. so why take time off from work if it doesnt even matter who you vote for, the election is based upon the electorial college votes, not the popular vote. And based upon that information, it is not too unreasonable to ask your wife to not vote, especialy if you can not afford to miss an hour or two of work, for something that wont count anyways, but I still stand on, it should be a vouluntering submision.

 

[Rooster]

Nothing unbiblical about listening and thinking and changing your mind if you are wrong.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Your right it would be stupid not to listen to reason, but that is diffrent than being submisive.

 

[Timtoolman]

Originally posted by av1611jim:
Scripture is clear. Understanding is sometimes a little muddy.

To the husband; are you demonstrating your love to God by requiring your wife to disobey Him? "render unto Ceaser..."

Jim

It is muddy if you don't consider the context. What is this verse refering too? Taxes. Lets see the government demands you pay taxes or what? Jail? But the government ask you or request that you vote if you don't then what? Nothing. I fail too see how this applies??

 

[joyfulkeeperathome]

Rooster, you're welcome...I didn't find it until earlier this year and had always heard the same as what you said - that wives were not told to love their husbands. But once I saw it in there, I had to change my views - it's great to be continually learning....

 

[mioque]

"Lets see the government demands you pay taxes or what? Jail? But the government ask you or request that you vote if you don't then what?"
"
A stiff fine (still talking about Belgium here).

 

[av1611jim]

Originally posted by Timtoolman:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by av1611jim:
Scripture is clear. Understanding is sometimes a little muddy.

To the husband; are you demonstrating your love to God by requiring your wife to disobey Him? "render unto Ceaser..."

Jim

It is muddy if you don't consider the context. What is this verse refering too? Taxes. Lets see the government demands you pay taxes or what? Jail? But the government ask you or request that you vote if you don't then what? Nothing. I fail too see how this applies?? </font>[/QUOTE]I think you are a little mixed up.
Yes there are penalties if we all do not vote. Does oligarchy, anarchy, dictatorship, communism, socialism, totalitarianism, sound familiar to you?
We as citizens of these United States are required to vote. It was never a right, but a privilege, that God gave us to choose our leaders. As such, a privilege may be lost if not cared for. Paul told us, in keeping with the mandate Jesus gave us, to be subject unto them. Part of being a subject of this government is excercising that privilege, else the consequence is that form of government our fore fathers fled from. In a word, tyranny.
Strictly speaking, you are right. The context is taxes. You must also remember WHY the question was asked of Jesus. That government then in power was none too nice. Since Jesus had been telling them of a coming Kingdom, they naturally had the question about taxes and by implication, loyalty of any kind to that oppresive government.
This is, I believe how it applies to the question of voting.
I already stated my views on submission, thank you very much.
In His service;
Jim

 

[SaggyWoman]

Originally posted by Terry_Herrington:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by SaggyWoman:
How can a husband tell his wife not to vote? What is that?

It is called being the head of the house. </font>[/QUOTE]That is called being a control freak.

And I mean FREAK.

 

[SaggyWoman]

Originally posted by In Christ:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by SaggyWoman:
I would submit to my husband on this for two reasons.

1.) I love him.

2.) Because it doesn't go against the principles of God.

The voting thing--eh. I don't know. I am an avid voter, and I am not married, but those men/man I am interested in are voters as well.

Before 1920 woman did'nt need to vote the men did the voting.Husband & fathers. </font>[/QUOTE]No one "needs" to vote. We should "want" to vote because of the difference we can make.

 

[Timtoolman]

Originally posted by av1611jim:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Timtoolman:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by av1611jim:
Scripture is clear. Understanding is sometimes a little muddy.

To the husband; are you demonstrating your love to God by requiring your wife to disobey Him? "render unto Ceaser..."

Jim

It is muddy if you don't consider the context. What is this verse refering too? Taxes. Lets see the government demands you pay taxes or what? Jail? But the government ask you or request that you vote if you don't then what? Nothing. I fail too see how this applies?? </font>[/QUOTE]I think you are a little mixed up.
Yes there are penalties if we all do not vote. Does oligarchy, anarchy, dictatorship, communism, socialism, totalitarianism, sound familiar to you?
We as citizens of these United States are required to vote. It was never a right, but a privilege, that God gave us to choose our leaders. As such, a privilege may be lost if not cared for. Paul told us, in keeping with the mandate Jesus gave us, to be subject unto them. Part of being a subject of this government is excercising that privilege, else the consequence is that form of government our fore fathers fled from. In a word, tyranny.
Strictly speaking, you are right. The context is taxes. You must also remember WHY the question was asked of Jesus. That government then in power was none too nice. Since Jesus had been telling them of a coming Kingdom, they naturally had the question about taxes and by implication, loyalty of any kind to that oppresive government.
This is, I believe how it applies to the question of voting.
I already stated my views on submission, thank you very much.
In His service;
Jim </font>[/QUOTE]Not mixed up at all. God says women are to submitt to the husband he is the head. What is clear about voting in the bible. Again it is a far far strecth to say it is commanded or demanded by govenment (or God for that matter). Do we obey God or man? Personally you can go off on what I consider a rabbit trail that leads away from the real pt I am not willing to go there.
Lets try this, where or when does a woman submitt? Is it ever? I feel the main issue is really women rebel agains submitting. That hate it and dig thier heels in whenever possible. I am the same way. At times I hate authority too. Always telling me what to do, government, laws and even the flesh against God. It is human nature. And that is really what I think is the heart of the matter on this subject for women. Let me add I am not a control freak. I can say that without reservation and from the heart. You can ask my wife also.