substitute words (and liquid)

Funny--I thought this discussion was about the NT and the Lord's supper. You are talking about the OT--different language, different era, different culture.

 

The passage is dealing with the future, a.k.a. post NT, so while it is a different era, and culture (New Earth: Heaven) it's not different language.

 

Excuse me? The OT was not written in Hebrew? Wow! The things you learn on the BB!:smilewinkgrin:

 

And where is the papyrus that tells us that 1st century wine growers did not wash their grapes before processing, and thus change or retard the process?

How in the world would dilution cause the wine to spoil? Forgive my ignorance, but I didn't think water could spoil anything.

 

Strawman. I never said anything about the OT being written in Hebrew. Isaiah 25:6 is dealing with FUTURE events, so your "it's OT, therefore it doesn't apply" argument doesn't hold water.

 

LOL! You guys are funny.
Who cares? Got milk?
If you're so worried about the specifics of it all, do you really think they used a tiny cracker square?
They sat down and ate. Together. A whole meal.
Unless you can fit a leg of lamb into your mouth in one bite, you're doing it "wrong" even if you use the proper "oinos." :tongue3:

And the men weren't even wearing pants.

I'd say y'all are really messing this one up!

 

I have not heard any word but wine used in any Baptist church I have attended. Also I have never been in any other denomination where the word "wine" was not used.

Perhaps there is some Baptist church somewhere on this earth that uses "wine", and if there is I believe it is the only Baptist church that understands the Bible, and what "wine" represents. Jesus did not correct those that called him a "glutton and a winebibber". Those children under the Law He spoke to, in their wisdom could not understand the "liberty and freedom" found in Christ Jesus.

They of course overstated their case, but the "bread and the wine" is the correct and acceptable way He wishes us to remember Him as we commune with Him. Wine represents blood, as all know, and would assume the wines in those days were pretty much what we today drink, viz. around 12% by volume alcohol ratio. Scripture tells us they were getting drunk in the church, so wine was used, and not "grape juice".

He is so looking forward to having His Apostles with Him at His table when He can again sit at meet with them, partaking of the fruit of the vine.

 

Of course Is. 25:6 doesn't apply--at least until you can prove that it is prophesying the Lord's Supper!

If you are trying to draw me into some kind of alcohol vs. teetotal argument, it won't work. I'm not interested. I'm just having a good time discussing the Lord's Supper, and my main point has been, answering the OP, that it shouldn't matter to anyone else whether or not my church uses grape juice. My church is an autonomous Baptist church. We will do what we think is right. Go ahead and have your alcohol. It doesn't bother me a bit! :tongue3:

 

JofJ

Just wanted to comment on this statement.

On number 3, wine ferments the same way now as it always has.

On number 4 if I diluted %14 wine by 4 it would be %3.5. That is .3% stronger then the beer I can buy in my state. Trust me people are getting drunk easly on %3.2 beer.

 

So you automatically assume the highest wine content? That's strange. You must be a Corinthian--they got drunk on the Lord's Supper wine! :smilewinkgrin: (Just joking--don't take it badly. :tongue3

 

You have to be kidding!!! You agree with the Pharisees that Jesus was a drunk (the meaning of "winebibber") and glutton????

 

Some churches have tried to be so politically correct that even the people do not know the truth.

 

:smilewinkgrin: 9% diluted X4 = 2.2% Or two thirds of a Utah beer. Still not all that hard to get drunk. If it normaly takes 6 cans of beer to get a person drunk it would take 8 of 2.2%.

I choose %14 because that is the neighborhood that the vast majority of wine is in. Exceptions would be dersert wines (lower) and port wines (higher).

BTW, I know you are just kidding.

 

Originally Posted by ituttut

I am going to bet Ituttut just worded his post badly. And that is not what he was meaning.

 

I don't want to hijack the thread, but I have to admit to a huge ignorance here. Eight cans of beer, though--do people actually drink that much? Even six cans seems like a lot to me--I can't imagine drinking six cans in a row of cola, or my beloved root beer, much less something alcoholic!

 

They do John. It seems very impractical to me, and silly. If one is going to drink that much, why not just drink shots? Especially if you're going to be that stupified that you can barely walk, you shouldn't drink that much liquid or you'll HAVE to be walking to the RR every five minutes.

Humans sure can be dumb. In fact, why even drink liquor at all? Now you can just take a pill and feel stupid, if that's your aim! One little pill. No need for repeated trips to the bathroom, no praying to the porcelain...

In fact, why even bother with the pill? Why not just lay there and stare at the wall and think stupid thoughts? Then you can snap out of it if you want to.

Yep, humans aren't as bright as they'd like to think.

 

Hey, I've done that last one before--never the others!
:laugh: :laugh:

 

Yes people drink alot more then that. I know people who drink 24 cans on a sat. afternoon.

How many cans will get you drunk depends on weight, drinking experiance, how much you eat and how long of time you drink them over.

At 250+ pounds if I eat a large meal I could drink 6 cans over 2.5 hours and not get drunk at all. I would not drink this much though.

 

Trust me, I'm not trying to change your view about alcohol. I am discussing the Lords Supper. The Lords Supper was the Passover meal, was it not? Do you know of the requirements of the Passover meal? There was to be NO yeast whatsoever anywhere near it (for an entire week, at that). Grape juice is not yeast free, wine is. If we stick to the unleavened bread for the Lords Supper, we should also stick to the unleavened wine as well. The Lord made the best wine, and it was not a diluted wine. That was my point behind the passage from Isaiah.