Suicide

[SaggyWoman]

I went to see my friend this past weekend. Things I learned.

1. Listening and responding with compassion (or just listening) is key.

2. Don't judge. Just look objectively.

more later.

 

[Bible Believing Bill]

I don't know how I missed this tread until now, but I will comment. I agree with a lot of what has been said here.

1. Try to protect the family as best you can.

2. The act of suicide has no bearing upon where you spend eternity. If you are saved you will go to heaven. If you aren't then won't be in Heaven.

Specific to the suicide, suicide is not the action of a healthy person. It goes against the self preservation instinct God put within us. If he had dyed of a physical disease, say cancer, would you let that be a deciding factor in his eternal fate? He died as a result of a mental illness and the method of his death has no bearing on the state of his soul.

Exactly right brother. A person who commits suicide has died of a disease just as if they had a heart attack.

It should have read Many years ago one of my uncles committed suicide and his wife quickly realized that it was an extremely selfish act on his part.

I agree it is a selfish act, but perhaps not as selfish as it first appears. At a NAMI meeting once I heard a man who suffered from depression tell how being suicidal was to him. His example was that if someone was physically beating you everyday then everyone would think you would be CRAZY to stay and take it everyday. The rational thing to do would be to escape.

Well to a mentally ill person it is like having someone in your own head who is abusing you every day. Since the abuser is your own mind they only way to escape is suicide. I don't necessarily agree with this 100% but it is an interesting perspective in what it is like to be suicidal.

We must not pass judgment on anyone who commits or attempts to commit suicide. We do not know what it is like for them.


Bill

 

[SaggyWoman]

3. People, when people die, think they are helping the grieving by saying cliches and they arent helping. People also say ugly things in time of grievingt to those who are grieving that they should just shut up on. In cases of suicide, sometimes it is even worse. Protect your greiving. Help them deal with stupid people by being supportive. If the greiving share stories of hurtful words, help redirect.

 

[SaggyWoman]

4. Don't focus on the suicide, but don't be fearful of talking about it. Focus on the traits of the person that passed.

 

[SaggyWoman]

I agree it is a selfish act, but perhaps not as selfish as it first appears. At a NAMI meeting once I heard a man who suffered from depression tell how being suicidal was to him. His example was that if someone was physically beating you everyday then everyone would think you would be CRAZY to stay and take it everyday. The rational thing to do would be to escape.

Well to a mentally ill person it is like having someone in your own head who is abusing you every day. Since the abuser is your own mind they only way to escape is suicide. I don't necessarily agree with this 100% but it is an interesting perspective in what it is like to be suicidal.

We must not pass judgment on anyone who commits or attempts to commit suicide. We do not know what it is like for them.


Bill

After this experience, I totally agree with you.

 

[Cutter]

A man in the church that I pastored from 96 to 02 was an active member and cleaned up the church every week for years. He called his niece about 3 weeks ago and asked her if she would clean the church for him the following week. A couple of days later he went to clean the church like he always did, then went home and got a pistol. He stepped out on the front porch, placed it to his chest and pulled the trigger. His wife was in the house and thought a limb had cracked. When she went out on the porch she tried to help him hang on until help arrived, but he died. When I spoke with her I held her and asked about her welfare and if someone was staying with her. I didn't say anything about the death other than to say we visited his gravesite and will miss him.

 

[LeBuick]

There are never the right words to deal with some situations. Yes, you can comfort with scripture which is part of its design but often the one being comforted will question God (like Job). Death and particularly the death of a child or suicide fall into this catagory. I almost find it not fair for a parent to burry their child.

I do believe there is a season for everything and it's important to mourn during mourning time or you will carry that grief the rest of your days. Everyone appreciates another to help carry a burden and these are the lasting memories from an almost surreal moment of time. Now is the time to be a friend.

 

[SaggyWoman]

Do you agree with the comments in this post? I am looking for answers, not debate.

Some Myths
of
Suicide Loss

Suicide loss is the subject of many myths. The greatest is often voiced by suicidal individuals -- the mistaken belief that no one will care or will be affected by the suicide. Other myths of suicide loss are equally misguided:

Myth 1: There is nothing that anyone could have done to prevent the suicide. - At some point in the process a timely intervention might have averted the tragic outcome.
Myth 2: In time those affected by the loss of someone to suicide will get over it. - Suicide loss is characterized by a long, severe, and painful grief that may not abate.
Myth 3: Someone who has never experienced a suicide loss can know what it is like. - "I know what you are going through" can only be true if the speaker is also a suicide griever.
Myth 4: Those who endure a suicide loss are made stronger by it. - Suicide loss shatters personal beliefs, depletes self-esteem, leads to depression, and sometimes to suicide.
Myth 5: Those who are young when a parent or sibling suicides are spared the pain. - The very young often feel the effect years later when they learn what happened. Children grieve and may have serious problems if it is not acknowledged and supported.
Myth 6: A suicide by an older person doesn't affect others as it does if the victim is young.- The grievers of an elder victim may be told that he/she "was old and going to die anyway." This marginalizes their grief.
Myth 7: Being around others who have had such a loss will just make you feel worse. - Such contact is usually beneficial. It shows that one is not alone.
Myth 8: Those around someone who has had a suicide loss shouldn't talk about it. - Ignoring loss is denying loss. It should not be given "the silent treatment."
Myth 9: Learning about suicide after having a suicide loss will not do any good. - Most who suffer a suicide loss need to know how it came to happen and understand "why." Myth 10: Stigma is no longer associated with suicide loss. - There may still be hurtful remarks about the victim, what motivated their death, and the grievers' responsibility or knowledge of their intent.


​

 

[SaggyWoman]

Interesting website:

http://www.fiercegoodbye.com/?P=58

 

[SaggyWoman]

We cannot afford not to provide a safe place to talk about them
because if we don't in today's world,
the church becomes a social club.

 

[SaggyWoman]

This is a good stop too.

http://www.fiercegoodbye.com/?P=82

 

[Bible Believing Bill]

Do you agree with the comments in this post? I am looking for answers, not debate.

Some Myths
of
Suicide Loss

Suicide loss is the subject of many myths. The greatest is often voiced by suicidal individuals -- the mistaken belief that no one will care or will be affected by the suicide. Other myths of suicide loss are equally misguided:

Myth 1: There is nothing that anyone could have done to prevent the suicide. - At some point in the process a timely intervention might have averted the tragic outcome.
Myth 2: In time those affected by the loss of someone to suicide will get over it. - Suicide loss is characterized by a long, severe, and painful grief that may not abate.
Myth 3: Someone who has never experienced a suicide loss can know what it is like. - "I know what you are going through" can only be true if the speaker is also a suicide griever.
Myth 4: Those who endure a suicide loss are made stronger by it. - Suicide loss shatters personal beliefs, depletes self-esteem, leads to depression, and sometimes to suicide.
Myth 5: Those who are young when a parent or sibling suicides are spared the pain. - The very young often feel the effect years later when they learn what happened. Children grieve and may have serious problems if it is not acknowledged and supported.
Myth 6: A suicide by an older person doesn't affect others as it does if the victim is young.- The grievers of an elder victim may be told that he/she "was old and going to die anyway." This marginalizes their grief.
Myth 7: Being around others who have had such a loss will just make you feel worse. - Such contact is usually beneficial. It shows that one is not alone.
Myth 8: Those around someone who has had a suicide loss shouldn't talk about it. - Ignoring loss is denying loss. It should not be given "the silent treatment."
Myth 9: Learning about suicide after having a suicide loss will not do any good. - Most who suffer a suicide loss need to know how it came to happen and understand "why." Myth 10: Stigma is no longer associated with suicide loss. - There may still be hurtful remarks about the victim, what motivated their death, and the grievers' responsibility or knowledge of their intent.


​

I would like to comment specifically on myth 5

Myth 5: Those who are young when a parent or sibling suicides are spared the pain. - The very young often feel the effect years later when they learn what happened. Children grieve and may have serious problems if it is not acknowledged and supported.

A therapist once told someone I know that if you want to screw up your kids lives then all you need to do is kill yourself. I know for a fact this is an accurate statement from the therapist because I was present when it was said.
At first that seems like a pretty harsh statement to someone who had recently been suicidal, but the person in question had said that one reason they didn't follow through was their children. So the therapist was reinforcing the fact that it would not be good for the children.


Bill

 

[SaggyWoman]

Though I was not able to attend the funeral of my friend due to the fact it was in OK and I was in NC, I went to visit her in early August, and she gave me a tape of the funeral.

Having been to a number of funerals over the years dealing with a wide spectrum of issues, I toast this pastor for the way he dealt with the suicide. He didn't skirt around it at all, but dealt with it ever so compassionately. Ever. Ever so.

 

[LeBuick]

Having been to a number of funerals over the years dealing with a wide spectrum of issues, I toast this pastor for the way he dealt with the suicide. He didn't skirt around it at all, but dealt with it ever so compassionately. Ever. Ever so.

He might enjoy knowing the message was well received. Often the preacher has to say what everyone is thinking but no one else will say.

We had a young man commit suicide some years ago. I toiled all night with my message, "crying on the inside". I talked about how society has created this myth that men are not supposed to cry so they are left to deal with painful issues by themselves (within).

His father caught my drift and hated me after the service. He even stopped coming to the Church. About 6 months later he came to me after service and said I was right. His son needed a shoulder to lean on but his dad kept telling him to buck up. I didn't know of this situation but the Lord gave me that message. That hug from his dad sure felt good even though it was 6 months later.

I'm sure that pastor would welcome a word from ya...

 

[SaggyWoman]

I'm sure that pastor would welcome a word from ya...

Actually, I did write him a long note, thanks for the suggestion. After I sent him the note, about two weeks later, I visited my friend again in Oklahoma, and when my friend introduced me in church (I hate it when that happens) he gave this excited wave.

Bless him, Lord.

 

[SaggyWoman]

Sometimes the death continues to hurt.

 

[charles_creech78]

I had a friend that had a son that commited suicide. He asked me if he was in hell for doing that and I said I did not know and that I had to study on it . I gave him some scripture. Ga 5:21 Envyings, MURDERS, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. Then I told him to look the word suicide up in the dictionary. I looked it up and it means self murder. He was mean to me ever sence. I ever gave him what God gave me. I study heard on it to.