Summary of the Gospel

[KenH]

Your mischaracterization of the opposing view is dishonest.

"Without considering the consequences of such a system of belief, most professing Christians today have adopted a theology which makes God a failure! Historically, this system was first taught by Thomas Aquinas among the Catholics and is known as Thomism. Later, among some Protestants these ideas were popularized by James Arminius and others. Today they are known by the term Arminianism (not to be confused with Armenia). This free will system of doctrine is the tie that binds Catholicism and Protestantism together -- and in our day a host of nominal Baptists who also have fallen prey to it.

By carelessness in Bible study on the part of many -- and evident wresting of the Scriptures on the part of some -- many professing Christians now claim to worship a god who is a failure! Often these people slander the Bible by saying it contains two contradictory lines of teaching which cannot be reconciled. They may claim to believe in a sovereign God, but at the same time think mankind has a "free will" by which he can resist God and hinder His working. Thus, they take the Thomist/Arminian view and promote free-willism. (Nowhere does the Bible teach that man's will is free from his depraved nature!)

This free will system of doctrine sets forth a god who is a wimp. He loves everybody (in spite of clear Bible teaching that God has set His love only on His elect people). The god of this theological system is trying to save everybody, but cannot because they will not let him. Therefore this god is a failure!

Most often, adherents to this Catholic system of theology deny vehemently that they teach that their god is a failure. However, occasionally one of their preachers will say in words or substance, "God has done everything He can do to save you. The rest is up to you". Or perhaps their preaching takes the slant that you must "let God" do this or that in your life. If you do not "let God" He cannot accomplish His purpose in your life, according to the god-is-a-failure theory.

As further proof, we quote one prominent "Baptist" (BBF) preacher of some years ago as representative of this Thomist/Arminian view. He wrote, ". . . hell is a ghastly monument to the failure of the Triune God to save the multitudes who are there . . . sinners go to hell because God Almighty couldn't save them! He did all He could. He failed." [Noel Smith, "Universal Atonement," Defender Magazine, Springfield, MO., U.S.A., December, 1956]."

- excerpt from Is God a Failure? (libcfl.com)

 

[KenH]

And you are incorrect (just wanted to keep addressing your insistance that to worship God one must agree with your ideas separate from addressing your misunderstanding).

One does not have to agree with my "ideas," but one does have to have their heart opened by the Holy Spirit and be regenerated by Him, and given the gifts of repentance toward God and faith toward Christ Jesus, in order to worship the God of the Bible. One has to determine if he is worshipping the God revealed in God's Word or if he is worshipping a false god. There is no salvation in believing a false gospel or in worshipping a false god.

Galatians 1:8-9 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

 

[JonC]

One does not have to agree with my "ideas," but one does have to have their heart opened by the Holy Spirit and be regenerated by Him, and given the gifts of repentance toward God and faith toward Christ Jesus, in order to worship the God of the Bible. One has to determine if he is worshipping the God revealed in God's Word or if he is worshipping a false god. There is no salvation in believing a false gospel or in worshipping a false god.

Now you are changing your tune. Good.

I agree that one has to repent and believe.

 

[JonC]

"Without considering the consequences of such a system of belief, most professing Christians today have adopted a theology which makes God a failure! Historically, this system was first taught by Thomas Aquinas among the Catholics and is known as Thomism. Later, among some Protestants these ideas were popularized by James Arminius and others. Today they are known by the term Arminianism (not to be confused with Armenia). This free will system of doctrine is the tie that binds Catholicism and Protestantism together -- and in our day a host of nominal Baptists who also have fallen prey to it.

By carelessness in Bible study on the part of many -- and evident wresting of the Scriptures on the part of some -- many professing Christians now claim to worship a god who is a failure! Often these people slander the Bible by saying it contains two contradictory lines of teaching which cannot be reconciled. They may claim to believe in a sovereign God, but at the same time think mankind has a "free will" by which he can resist God and hinder His working. Thus, they take the Thomist/Arminian view and promote free-willism. (Nowhere does the Bible teach that man's will is free from his depraved nature!)

This free will system of doctrine sets forth a god who is a wimp. He loves everybody (in spite of clear Bible teaching that God has set His love only on His elect people). The god of this theological system is trying to save everybody, but cannot because they will not let him. Therefore this god is a failure!

Most often, adherents to this Catholic system of theology deny vehemently that they teach that their god is a failure. However, occasionally one of their preachers will say in words or substance, "God has done everything He can do to save you. The rest is up to you". Or perhaps their preaching takes the slant that you must "let God" do this or that in your life. If you do not "let God" He cannot accomplish His purpose in your life, according to the god-is-a-failure theory.

As further proof, we quote one prominent "Baptist" (BBF) preacher of some years ago as representative of this Thomist/Arminian view. He wrote, ". . . hell is a ghastly monument to the failure of the Triune God to save the multitudes who are there . . . sinners go to hell because God Almighty couldn't save them! He did all He could. He failed." [Noel Smith, "Universal Atonement," Defender Magazine, Springfield, MO., U.S.A., December, 1956]."

- excerpt from Is God a Failure? (libcfl.com)

The article is foolishness.

Both Calvinism and Arminianism are very closely tied to Catholicism (of course). But Arminianism holds that God must draw a man to Himself in order to believe (that men are depraved and of themselves can only choose condemnation).

The assumption is that free will theologians believe man can essentially save himself. That is willful ignorance.

The crux of the difference here is whether man can choose condemnation, not whether they can (of themselves) choose God as both camps agree man can't (whether by ability or will).

 

[KenH]

Now you are changing your tune.

I am not changing at all.

 

[KenH]

The article is foolishness.

The article is spot on about the false god that many people worship who is not omnipotent but dependent upon the creatures that He created to accomplish His purposes. According to the false teaching such people put forth, there could end up being no one saved at all by Christ's blood, since it is possible in their system that no one may have "let God" save them.

 

[JonC]

I am not changing at all.

Sure you are. You characterized those opposing your ideas as holding to another god simply because they reject limited atonement.

This means there were no true Christians until after the Reformation. They all believed in a god like a comic book character.

 

[JonC]

The article is spot on about the false god that many people worship who is not omnipotent but dependent upon the creatures that He created to accomplish His purposes. According to the false teaching such people put forth, there could end up being no one saved at all by Christ's blood, since it is possible in their system that no one may have "let God" save them.

Name those of whom you speak so that I know what you are talking about.

The article names Arminians. Obviously the article is wrong as Arminianism does not hold that man has to "let God save them", or that they have the power to choose God.

Arminianism holds that man only choose condemnation, but God draws ma
en in such a way that they can be saved (but they can still choose condemnation).


Note - I believe Arminianism and Calvinism just two forms of reformed Catholicism....I am neither. So the only dog I have in the hunt is the desire people be honest, even if their dishonesty is out of ignorance.

 

[KenH]

Sure you are.

Nope.

 

[KenH]

Name those of whom you speak so that I know what you are talking about.

I am speaking of anyone that doesn't believe that there is nothing that he can do to save himself; who don't believe that Christ met all of the conditions for God's elect; who believe that they are capable of meeting some condition(s) before one is regenerated; who believe that there are will be those in hell for whom Christ was their Surety and died as their Substitute to pay their sin debt.

 

[JonC]

I am speaking of anyone that doesn't believe that there is nothing that he can do to save himself;

So you are speaking to a hypothetical person, not actually engaging with members who posted on this thread or who hold positions such as free-will theology or Arminianism.

Great.

Sorry for my misunderstanding.

 

[Van]

This is an invitation:

28 Come unto me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light. Mt 11

This is a statement of fact:

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life. Jn 3

I think you missed the fact that "whosoever believeth on Him" actually reads "all those believing into Him" thus an invitation to believe.

 

[Van]

The phrase "come to Me" appears several times in the New Testament.

In John 5:40 folks choose not to "come" to Jesus, being unwilling, not unable.

In John 6:44 no one can "come" to Jesus unless first drawn (attracted) by the Father.

In John 6:65 no one can "come" to Jesus unless allowed by the Father, i.e. God has not hardened his or her heart.

In John 7:37, Jesus say let folks come to Me. Thus His invitation is offered.