Summary of TULIP After Reading This Site for Over Eight Years

[Reformed1689]

,and ordained or appointed should read directed in Acts.

Based on what?

 

[kyredneck]

Jesus knew Judas intended to betray Him

Yea.

70 Jesus answered them, Did not I choose you the twelve, and one of you is a devil?
71 Now he spake of Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve. Jn 6

 

[Van]

Based on what?

Asked and answered.

First, tasso is claimed not to mean agreement by mutual consent. Then it was claimed 5 lexicons did not include that meaning. Now posts #90, 93, and 95 are ignored.

Summary : You were saved or damned from all eternity for all eternity and there is nothing you can do to alter that outcome of your life or the lives of ;your loved ones, thus Calvinism boils down to the doctrines of futility.

There is no support in the bible for Calvinism, the claimed support arises from mistranslations (luke 14:23 and Acts 13:48) or ambiguous verses.

 

[Reformed1689]

First, tasso is claimed not to mean agreement by mutual consent. Then it was claimed 5 lexicons did not include that meaning. Now posts #90, 93, and 95 are ignored.

Note that your definition was not the primary definition even in the lexicon you cited. I have found no other lexicon that gives the definition you gave. The most respected lexicons do not give that definition. I don't care what posts 90, 93, and 95 say because it is irrelevant to the facts that the use of tasso in Acts 13 does not mean a mutual agreement.

 

[MB]

Again, Calvinists say they do the same thing, so who is right? In fact, we believe that non-calvinists reinterpret things to appease their belief system.

So God speaks directly to you in an audible voice? You don't need help from anyone else? There is nobody wiser than you? I know that isn't what you are saying but that is the way this comes across. So we should not have listened to the sermons of Peter and Paul if we were alive at that time? We should not have asked them? This position is just nonsense.

Back to agitation I see.
God doesn't speak the way you think.. He speaks to me through His word. He can speak to you the same way. Your only problem is you are to busy scrutinizing His word.
MB

 

[Reformed1689]

Back to agitation I see.
God doesn't speak the way you think.. He speaks to me through His word. He can speak to you the same way. Your only problem is you are to busy scrutinizing His word.
MB

No, my point was made in my post. You ignored it. I study to show myself approved. Yes, we are to pour over God's word. Yes we are to scrutinize it. Do you know what that word means? To examine or inspect closely and thoroughly. If I did not do that I would be worried.

 

[MB]

Asked and answered.

First, tasso is claimed not to mean agreement by mutual consent. Then it was claimed 5 lexicons did not include that meaning. Now posts #90, 93, and 95 are ignored.

Summary : You were saved or damned from all eternity for all eternity and there is nothing you can do to alter that outcome of your life or the lives of ;your loved ones, thus Calvinism boils down to the doctrines of futility.

There is no support in the bible for Calvinism, the claimed support arises from mistranslations (luke 14:23 and Acts 13:48) or ambiguous verses.

I'd call it what it truly is and that is fatalism. Every thing in Calvinism depends not on God, but fate. It's a gamble at beat.
MB

 

[Reformed1689]

I'd call it what it truly is and that is fatalism. Every thing in Calvinism depends not on God, but fate. It's a gamble at beat.
MB

This is nonsense. Calvinism depends solely on God.

 

[MB]

No, my point was made in my post. You ignored it. I study to show myself approved. Yes, we are to pour over God's word. Yes we are to scrutinize it. Do you know what that word means? To examine or inspect closely and thoroughly. If I did not do that I would be worried.

I'm sorry David you are right but your religion is a gamble at best.
MB

 

[Van]

I'd call it what it truly is and that is fatalism. Every thing in Calvinism depends not on God, but fate. It's a gamble at best.
MB

Yes, exhaustive determinism, where everything has been predestined absolves the lost and Christ's ambassadors of any responsibility for seeking God, trusting in God, spreading the word, accurately handing the word, discipling others, and training them to become effective ambassadors for Christ.

 

[Reformed1689]

Yes, exhaustive determinism, where everything has been predestined absolves the lost and Christ's ambassadors of any responsibility for seeking God, trusting in God, spreading the word, accurately handing the word, discipling others, and training them to become effective ambassadors for Christ.

Which of course none of that is true. Looks like the only one giving false accusations about others is you.

 

[MB]

This is nonsense. Calvinism depends solely on God.

No it doesn't it depends on fate.
Not once does GOD ever say anything that supports Calvinism in scripture.
Not once does GOD say men are unable to respond to the gospel because of depravity
Not once does GOD ever say we are regenerated in order that we can believe.
Not once does GOD ever say the atonement is limited to the elect
Not once does GOD ever say election is individual yet random and unconditional.
Not once does GOD ever say man cannot resist God
Everyone of these doctrines are written by man not God and everyone is a false doctrine.
Want to know what my doctrine is? It's the doctrine of Christ alone.
MB

 

[Dave G]

The Greek word translated "appointed" refers to an agreement by mutual consent. Therefore the actual meaning is "as many as had accepted Paul's direction to eternal life believed.

Once again the supposed support for Calvinism is based on mistranslation.

Two points I see you attempting to make:
1) The AV is not the word of God, because it wasn't translated correctly.
Got it.

2) "Appointed" doesn't mean "appointed" ( commissioned, chosen, selected ).
It means, "agreed upon by mutual consent".
Got it.

Now, I happen to think that there are places in God's word where this may be true...
Such as Acts of the Apostles 15:2 and Acts of the Apostles 28:23.

But not in Acts of the Apostles 13:48.

2) Acts of the Apostles 13:48 with the NASB translating it as "appointed." Here the idea is some of the Gentiles that heard the gospel's direction to eternal life from Paul believed

It isn't just as "idea".
It is relating a fact...some of the Gentiles believed.
Why?

Because they were ordained ( appointed ) to eternal life.
In the AV, "tasso" is translated as" ordained".

Definition:
τάσσω tássō, tas'-so; a prolonged form of a primary verb (which latter appears only in certain tenses); to arrange in an orderly manner, i.e. assign or dispose (to a certain position or lot):—addict, appoint, determine, ordain, set.



So, following through with your usage of "agreement by mutual consent", we see this rendered in other places:

" And I said, What shall I do, Lord? And the Lord said unto me, Arise, and go into Damascus; and there it shall be told thee of all things which are appointed ( agreed upon by mutual consent ) for thee to do." ( Acts of the Apostles 22:10 )

" Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained ( agreed upon by mutual consent ) of God." ( Romans 13:1 )


An interesting translation, Van.
I'm sorry, though...I cannot agree.

 

[37818]

Total depravity, brings to mind, Romans 3:11, ". . . There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. . . ."

Unconditional election, brings to mind, 1 Peter 1:1-2, ". . . Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, . . ."

Limited atonement, brings to mind, 1 John 2:2, ". . . And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. . . ."

Irresistable grace, brings to mind, Acts of the Apostles 7:51, ". . .Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. . . ."

Perseverance of the saints, brings to mind, John 10:27-28, ". . . My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. . . ."

Besides other references not cited.

 

[Van]

Which of course none of that is true. Looks like the only one giving false accusations about others is you.

Yet another taint so post. Calvinism has once again been shown to be bogus.

 

[Reformed1689]

Yet another taint so post. Calvinism has once again been shown to be bogus.

I'm sure you believe that....Unfortunately, that doesn't make that a reality.

 

[Van]

Two points I see you attempting to make:
1) The AV is not the word of God, because it wasn't translated correctly.
Got it.

2) "Appointed" doesn't mean "appointed" ( commissioned, chosen, selected ).
It means, "agreed upon by mutual consent".
Got it.

Now, I happen to think that there are places in God's word where this may be true...
Such as Acts of the Apostles 15:2 and Acts of the Apostles 28:23.

But not in Acts of the Apostles 13:48.

It isn't just as "idea".
It is relating a fact...some of the Gentiles believed.
Why?

Because they were ordained ( appointed ) to eternal life.
In the AV, "tasso" is translated as" ordained".

Definition:
τάσσω tássō, tas'-so; a prolonged form of a primary verb (which latter appears only in certain tenses); to arrange in an orderly manner, i.e. assign or dispose (to a certain position or lot):—addict, appoint, determine, ordain, set.



So, following through with your usage of "agreement by mutual consent", we see this rendered in other places:

" And I said, What shall I do, Lord? And the Lord said unto me, Arise, and go into Damascus; and there it shall be told thee of all things which are appointed ( agreed upon by mutual consent ) for thee to do." ( Acts of the Apostles 22:10 )

" Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained ( agreed upon by mutual consent ) of God." ( Romans 13:1 )


An interesting translation, Van.
I'm sorry, though...I cannot agree.

And once again we see the futility of defending bogus doctrine.
1) No one said AV was not the word of God, so a strawman, a deflection.
2) The meaning of tasso, as used in the bible has been established, it means an agreement by mutural consent. See post #95

Here are the two verses:
Acts of the Apostles 22:10 with the NASB translating it as "appointed." Here Jesus tells Paul to go and and learn what Paul has been directed to do. And again, Paul agrees and goes and learns.

Romans 13:1 with the NASB translating it as "established." Here the idea is God directed that governmental authority for the benefit of the governed.​

3)to put in order, to station

1. to place in a certain order, to arrange, to assign a place, to appoint
   1. to assign (appoint) a thing to one
   2. to appoint, ordain, order
      1. to appoint on one's own responsibility or authority
         
         
      2. to appoint mutually, i.e. agree upon
         

 

[Van]

I'm sure you believe that....Unfortunately, that doesn't make that a reality.

Yet another taint so post.

 

[Van]

Talk about Calvinism redefining words, add tasso to the list, As used in Acts 13:48 it refers to taking Paul's direction to eternal life, and therefore they believed.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Six Hour Warning
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