SUNDAY SCHOOL TROUBLE MAKERS

Ruht, anyone who knows anything knows that the building is not the church. We can tell by your comments that you are a universalist and by your profile that you are not a Baptist.

Why are you posting on this thread?

 

And who told you to tell him that? God? Was is God behind you telling you to point such a judgmental finger at your brother in law?

I don't speak for your brother in law, but I have a feeling that it was also attitudes like you are demonstrating that helped your brother in law seek a more peaceful place in which to commune and worship with the Lord.

Who is a "non-attender," seeing how church is not a building, but rather the collective body of believers?

Well, that's too bad, because the Holy Spirit is able to strengthen someone into withstanding the "devil's temptations," not a building. And the Holy Spirit lives in buildings not made by human hands.

Oh, I see. And where do you get the authority to state such a thing? from the way you interpret scripture? Provide a single piece of scripture that states a person must go to a building full of believers every Sunday and Wednesday; weekly; monthly; etc.

I'm sorry, but my liberty in Christ is not judged by the traditions of men, or by another man's conscience.

I see, so now you claim to speak for the entire body of believers? Kind of grandiose and presumptious words, wouldn't you say?

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. However, I disagree with your opinion.

And if someone doesn't share the same feelings or opinion as you, you cannot afford them their right to do such a thing; is that correct?

Well, there you have it, the pointy finger has come out, the nose has gone up in the air, the scowl has appeared on the brow, and I have fallen under the self-righteous judgments of a "church goer."

Which is why I would be willing to bet why many enjoy going "golfing" on Sundays rather than to a building where such finger-pointings tend to exist at times.

And BTW, who are "we?" Are there more than one of you?

To bless and to be blessed, Doc, and to "assemble" myself with other believers. Is that OK, or is this your forum and I am not welcome? Was I just supposed to agree with your opinion, or am I allowed to express a different opinion?

I would really like to shake the hand of your brother in law. It's not too difficult for me to reason as to perhaps why he would rather be at the "creek bank."

Apparently an "inquisition" is about to start. Hit me with your best shot, Doc.

God bless.

[ August 03, 2002, 07:18 AM: Message edited by: Ruht ]

 

What is left when christians fight with other christians? Schism! It is ok to disagree...but I sense more than a disagreement. Why don't you both back your statements up with Gods word and then try to compromise. At least say its ok to disagree. What example is this for a non-christian or new christian to see or experience. They could see this brawl coming at the bar. Even christians make mistakes and have independant ideas....but to act out with any kind of rage is wrong. And I will pray for you both.

 

Sherrie, the only person I see getting upset about this is Ruht...who, from his profile, professes to be a Christian, but not necessarily a Baptist.

It's an interesting thing when someone takes their liberty in Christ and extends it to the point where it's okay not to fellowship with other like-minded Christians. Paul wrote about this exact same sort of liberty in 1 Corinthians 11.

Perhaps this discussion should progress to the definition of "church" (or more specifically, ecclesia).

My pastor likes to tell the story of a woman who told him once that she wasn't going to put money in the offering plate any more, because that guy on television could use it to reach a whole lot more people and do a lot more with it. My pastor just hugged her, and said, "He can't do that, can he?"

When you miss the opportunity to fellowship with other Christians, you miss the opportunity to be a blessing to them....

[ August 03, 2002, 12:18 PM: Message edited by: Don ]

 

I am not "upset," rather I am simply defending myself from an apparent accuser who apparently wishes to "condemn" me for me not living in the same apparent bondage he is in.

And I have offered grace to those who wish to go to a building with other Christians to worship and fellowship, but apparently the same grace is not offered back by some in here, to those who don't. It is therefore not surprising to see the ungracious in here not "upset" at the gracious, seeing how no one has tried to condemn them for what they choose to do.

And even though I am not truly upset, however, it is hardly too fair to sophistically reason that the person doing the 'punching' is not upset, as the person being 'punched' is.

And is a person saved by being a "Baptist?" And does the Baptist creed state that the only way for a person to fellowship with the Lord and with other Christians is within a building labeled as a "church?"

It is OK not to (in the traditional way), and it is OK to. For we are at liberty and peace in the Lord, and he hangs no such burden around our necks.

Which is why those who wish to try to can't provide any Bible verses which state in detail how to fellowship; how often to fellowship; where to fellowship; etc.

And Paul said even more about it in Galatians 2:4:

"And because of false bretheren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage" - Galatians 2:4

Hmm, your pastor wouldn't happen to be upset with people not going to church, because it threatens a personal monetary income of his, would he?

Christians can fellowship in numerous ways, and doing so in a building on Sunday morning is not the only way. It stands to question how a person who does not feel comfortable in being in such a place on Sunday morning, who really doesn't want to be there, who has no will or joy in being there, can offer much real fellowship, anyway.

I have a feeling many go to church on Sunday morning thinking they will be sinning if they don't; which I believe is no way to "fellowship." I would rather "fellowship" with a fellow Christian under liberty and a clear and free conscience, rather than in bondage and fear and duress.

As I said before, God bless those Christians who are led to go to such places, and God bless those Christians who are not. I can be happy and loving towards either, for they are both my brothers and sisters in the Lord, and who shall lay anything to the charge of God's elect.

God bless.

[ August 03, 2002, 01:59 PM: Message edited by: Ruht ]

 

Ruht -

Please check your private messages by clicking on the "my profile" link toward the top of the screen. If you are not Baptist, you may not post in this area.

Clint Kritzer

 

Warm Christian greetings!

Reply to Clint Kritzer in yesterday's post re: the first day of the week.:

You are correct that Hebrews 10 v 25 does not mention the 1st day of the week, this is mentioned in 1 Cor 16 v 2. The inference being that the believers met together on this day. I was simply trying to bring the two together.

Thank you for pointing this out,
Kind regards

Robert J Hutton

 

Don
I do tend to agree with you and see your point. I think church is like the old saying about chairity...it starts at home. If we are talking about reaching others...then we need to talk about our neighbors right next door. If we are talking about fellowship with God in a congregation...we need to learn to start at home. In our own congregation. If we can't get along in church here on earth, how can we do it at home in Heaven. I honestly do not believe you meant that church could be only inside. I think yout whole implication was that the building is a tool we use in rescuing people from their own destructions and a temporary shelter for worshiping our Lord. I totally believe you know that God isn't in that building but out their in the world sharing His Son. But even Jesus went to the temple...as well as taught the multitudes outside. He did not do it between golf swings or even batting practice. But I really do think some people are about testing and stirring up the pot only to make you look a fool. By arguing with a fool only makes you a fool. Just back it up with scripture and then.....Thats that! Gods word is perfect then, and it is now.
Sherrie

 

For the busybodies of this forum:

My great-grandfather was a Baptist minister; his son, my grandfather, was a Baptist deacon for over 50 years; his second son, my uncle on my father's side, is a Baptist minister; my sweet mother was a Baptist when she led me to the Lord when I was just 6 years old; my father is a Baptist; I was baptized in a Baptist church when I was just 12 years old; I am presently still a registered member of a Baptist denomination, however I have taken the LIBERTY in Christ to at times attend a Jewish-Christian church, and what a blessing it has been.

So I hope that is BAPTIST enough for the finger-pointing busybodies of this particular forum, a forum from which I will probably now be banned for not bowing down to such people and oppression. But before that happens I would like to remind some of the fools in here that Christ was a JEW, not a Baptist, which means in accordance to your bigoted rules he also would have been banned from some of the forums in here.

So if I am also banned, then I would rather be on his side of the fence, anyway.

This entire thing is probably the best lesson as to why some wisely avoid organized religion or "churches," and why they choose to go fishing or to golf course on Sunday, instead.

Thank you, Lord Jesus, for your precious blood you shed for me at Calvary, even though you weren't "Baptist."

Forgive me for my apparent insolence, but while reading a lot of talk about GRACE on this "Baptist" board, I find little of it actually being ministered in this case.

God bless.

[ August 03, 2002, 02:53 PM: Message edited by: Ruht ]

 

The rules of the Board do not take into account these relationships.

I would think this is Baptist enough to fulfill the rules, though I'm still unsure whether you really consider yourself a Baptist. The only thing we moderators and administrators have to go by is the way you list yourself in your profile. If you wish to be recognized as a Baptist by the moderators, you need to so list yourself in your profile. It's as simple as that. You have been made aware of the rules - you are perfectly able to choose whether you wish to abide by them.

No one is keeping you from going fishing or to the golf course on Sunday. They do have a right on the board to disagree, just as you have a right to promote it.

 

Ruht -

This has absolutely nothing to do with your salvation. This has to do with you agreeing to abide by the rules when you first joined this board.

Your posts will be deleted in this section of the board from this point forward. It is not our desire to attack you or prevent you from participating on this website. It is rather our duty as administrators and moderators to enforce the rules by which this board is run.

Please limit your posts to the free for all forums and the other religions foums from this point forward.

Clint Kritzer
Administrator

 

Ruht,

Please, take a moment, step back, and read your own posts. They are a combination of defensive and accusatory. Does that bespeak the character you want to express as a Christian?

Where are the fruits of the Spirit?

I'm sorry you have had what you consider bad experiences in a church. However I would wonder if part of that wasn't because of a rebellious spirit inside of you?

Are you being the person God wants you to be? I'm NOT asking if you are being the person YOU want you to be. That, actually, has nothing to do with it at all.

Are you being and becoming the person God Himself is bringing you up to be? The image of His Son? Humble? A servant? I know none of us is there yet, but I also know that that is where we are headed by the grace and power of the Holy Spirit.

 

Ruht posted:

Now I'm upset.

Shame on you, you supposed Christian!

My pastor works an outside job, plus a lot of side jobs, because our church is small enough that it can't support him. Perhaps he shouldn't have taken this church, since they can't afford to pay him enough to simply be a pastor--but as he, and a bunch of other Baptist pastors I know say, he'd rather be a Baptist pastor than have a paying job.

You need to be rebuked, brother, and it needs to be harsh. You complain about a supposed lack of grace from Baptists on this board; well, guess what? You ain't got none, neither.

As for declaring yourself a Baptist and posting in this area or not, take a look at the section title; it says Baptists ONLY. Notice how the "ONLY" is all in caps?

If you're ashamed to be a Baptist, then why are you here in the first place?

 

Don
Like an old saying....Don't let the devil get you by the horns. Breath. Remember Forgiveness and calmness. True we are Baptist. But we are children of Gods first.

On the cross even Jesus said "Father forgive them they know not what they do".

I think the only way this is going to be solved is if it is dropped. I am not saying you are wrong, I am only saying that it was the intent of the other poster to get under someones skin...you took the bait.

I think at this point nothing you say will change anything for this other poster. But it is definately placing coals on your fire.

We must truly pray for this other poster and ask God to guide and lead the other poster as well as us. To give us all the wisdom and knowledge and the understanding to discern what is right and wrong here.

I also suggest no other approach to this poster at this time. Maybe at a different time when things are calmer.

If this poster has a burden and doesn't truly know Jesus as his Savior and would like too....or if this poster know Jesus but does not have an intimate relationship with Jesus please e-mail me. Or ask someone on this board. I am sure there are more than you can imagine that would be glad to listen and help you.

Sherrie

 

You're absolutely right, Sherrie; but I couldn't let a question about my pastor's moral character go unchallenged.

Actually, Ruht has been e-mailing me. We've had a "discussion" going. We'll see what happens.