Sunday School

[Van]

It is interesting that you didn't disagree, but more interesting that you jumped to the conclusion that not wanting to have an open forum means people don't want the students to think critically.

Discussions almost always lend itself to opinions and the you either spend/waste part or most of the class dealing with said opinion.

Hi Gigabyte71, sorry to see you think you are a mind reader. Did you see where I said I did or did not want students to think critically? Addressing the views of other, either spot on or mistaken is important to those who think others are more important than ourselves.

I recall one teacher who spent a great deal of time preparing and would deflect and evade in order to get through all his points. As the students were leaving the class, I overheard one remark he had no idea of what was said.

 

[corndogggy]

wrong thread, sorry.

 

[gigabyte71]

Hi Gigabyte71, sorry to see you think you are a mind reader. Did you see where I said I did or did not want students to think critically? Addressing the views of other, either spot on or mistaken is important to those who think others are more important than ourselves.

I recall one teacher who spent a great deal of time preparing and would deflect and evade in order to get through all his points. As the students were leaving the class, I overheard one remark he had no idea of what was said.

Van, didn't mean to offend. Reread what you wrote. I just thought it was interesting that you read into some of the comments that people were authoritative, just because they don't want to spend time on discussion.

 

[Deacon]

You allow a woman to teach???? That's unbiblical regardless of her skill it is forbidden in the scripture. A woman is not to teach or have authority over a man writes Paul to Timothy.

Present church they cannot teach period.

Last church thy could not teach but they could lead worship.

Well I keep the lights on while I show the video so no one can see her very well.

And I've increased the bass in the sound system so she sounds like a man.

So far no one's complained.

And the video is quite submissive to my demands. [/sarcasm]

Rob

 

[Van]

Van, didn't mean to offend. Reread what you wrote. I just thought it was interesting that you read into some of the comments that people were authoritative, just because they don't want to spend time on discussion.

Well, that response is certainly a reasonable assessment of my post. Much wiser to ask what a person might have meant, rather then to assume he or she took a rather absurd view.

I can't tell you the number of times, someone posts "so you are saying, ..." and presents then some unbiblical and outlandish premise.

Here is my actual statement: Some are "top down" autocrats who think their position or training means they should tell others what the Bible's message is. Others, kinda like me, are more egalitarian, wanting to engage the audience, and challenge them to think critically.

There is an old saying, "if you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, but if you teach a man to fish, you feed him for a lifetime."

 

[PreachTony]

You allow a woman to teach???? That's unbiblical regardless of her skill it is forbidden in the scripture. A woman is not to teach or have authority over a man writes Paul to Timothy.

Present church they cannot teach period.

Last church thy could not teach but they could lead worship.

My church does not allow women to preach, but they can teach classes of other women, and children (male and female) up to the age of 13. My own Mother is our choir director, but no female holds a position of authority in matters of theology.

 

[evangelist6589]

My church does not allow women to preach, but they can teach classes of other women, and children (male and female) up to the age of 13. My own Mother is our choir director, but no female holds a position of authority in matters of theology.

Thats okay

 

[JamesL]

I have no problem with 'Study Guides' when used appropriately. As I previously stated, I have seen them completely wrong, to the extent that the teacher did nothing more than read them, verbatim, to the class. When they got to discussion questions, the teacher read the question, then gave a brief answer, then continued with their reading. And most teachers I have seen use them teach the guide, not the Bible. They prepare by learning the guide, not the Scripture, then when actual questions arise about the Scripture, they can't answer it, unless it is directly addressed in the guide.

Another thing about open forum discussions, the questions in the guides are often about the book text, not the Biblical text. That is really no different than the people who respond to a question about what they believe with, 'well, my pastor says.' People need to learn to respond to questions with what God says, not what their pastor, sunday school teacher, or sunday school guide says. I have seen Sunday School guides misuse Scripture to support their topic, this SHOULD BE a huge red flag.

That's been my experience in SBC churches which use Lifeway "study" guides. Lesson Plan reciters who usually know about zero scripture, appointed as teachers.

 

[Salty]

That's been my experience in SBC churches which use Lifeway "study" guides. Lesson Plan reciters who usually know about zero scripture, appointed as teachers.

So what do we do about it?

Do teachers have proper training in being teachers.

This would be a great responsibility for Associations to undertake.

I just goggled training for Sunday school teachers and found several links. Here is one link:

 

[SaggyWoman]

The church I currently attend doesn't have Sunday School.

We have two services. One is at 9:15, and the other at 10:45. During those services, we have children's classes birth through 5th grade. Then we have a middle school Bloc, and I think a high school class during the later service. The MSB and HSB can attend the other service. We also offer occasionally a class that lasts six weeks for adults periodically throughout the year. Or a periodic leadership class. During the week, we have Bible study/book study blocs.

 

[JamesL]

So what do we do about it?

Do teachers have proper training in being teachers.

This would be a great responsibility for Associations to undertake.

I just goggled training for Sunday school teachers and found several links. Here is one link:

Well, the church needs to do a better job of teaching in general. Those "teachers" who don't know any scripture haven't been taught themselves.

But it's not only that. Those who haven't been taught are in that state because they haven't set themselves in a position to be taught.

At our church, we're having a huge problem with Sunday School. In the last couple of years, children have gone from about 25 down to 4 regularly.

Adults have gone from about 30 down to about 10 regularly.

The "worship" gang moved their practice from Saturday morning to Sunday morning before SS. So after practice, do they go to SS?

Nope. Out for breakfast, then back for "worship"

The guy running the sound, and his wife, "watch the auditorium" during SS. As if somebody's gonna steal something? Puh-leeze.

And she wants to teach a SS class now. Really?


I think the church needs to stop trying to make SS teachers, or trying to appoint them. Maybe a spiritual gifts assessment for prospective teachers? I don't know

 

[Revmitchell]

How does your church do SS? Is it a lecture hall where you can indoctrinate everyone with all the churches views? For example the churches view on alcoholic beverages, bible translations, music, dress, and other issues? Or is it in a more study format?

Church has made it open for members to give their input on how to improve the church and so I am going forward and presenting a more study based format that a former Bible church used where I was a member. Their goal was not indoctrination, but to create Bereans. This meant that ordinary members could question the church if they adapted a KJV Only position as ordinary members would have studied a basic introduction on textual criticism and bible translation to see the many advantages to modern versions. Members had to go through a Basic Bible study binder which got into a basic introdcution to systematic theology, textual criticism, etc.. We also learned how to use the Strongs concordance in that church in Sunday school!!!

Probably better than being indoctrinated by you.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

That's been my experience in SBC churches which use Lifeway "study" guides. Lesson Plan reciters who usually know about zero scripture, appointed as teachers.

Thats pretty bad.:tear:

 

[JamesL]

Thats pretty bad.:tear:

You're right about that, brother.

 

[gigabyte71]

Well, the church needs to do a better job of teaching in general. Those "teachers" who don't know any scripture haven't been taught themselves.

But it's not only that. Those who haven't been taught are in that state because they haven't set themselves in a position to be taught.

At our church, we're having a huge problem with Sunday School. In the last couple of years, children have gone from about 25 down to 4 regularly.

Adults have gone from about 30 down to about 10 regularly.

The "worship" gang moved their practice from Saturday morning to Sunday morning before SS. So after practice, do they go to SS?

Nope. Out for breakfast, then back for "worship"

The guy running the sound, and his wife, "watch the auditorium" during SS. As if somebody's gonna steal something? Puh-leeze.

And she wants to teach a SS class now. Really?


I think the church needs to stop trying to make SS teachers, or trying to appoint them. Maybe a spiritual gifts assessment for prospective teachers? I don't know

At the church we attend, there are members who will drop their children off on Wednesday evening for the children's program, but rather than stay for the adult Bible study, they go somewhere else (home, shopping, dinner, etc.)

Then you always have the people, and I have seen this at a number of Churches, who only show up when they are doing something. They will show up if they are teaching, singing a special, etc, but can't seem to find time for Sunday School or Wednesday evening Bible study.

And then there is the other problem you mention, there doesn't appear to be any concern with if a person has the gift to teach.

Here are some other observations from personal experience.

1. Pastors who won't attend Sunday School - In my opinion, this sets a bad example and a bad precedence.
2. Conflicting Schedules - Running an early "worship" service at the same time as Sunday School.
3. Training offered, but refused - We had someone that had been teaching Sunday School for years who was willing to teach the teachers how to use the material, but no one could ever seem to make time to attend.
4. No one checks these teachers out - I know Church is a volunteer organization, but that doesn't mean anyone can do anything. I know of a Church where everyone knew what was going on in one of the Sunday school classes, and it wasn't teaching the Bible, yet the 'elders' refused to deal with it.

 

[gigabyte71]

So what do we do about it?

Do teachers have proper training in being teachers.

This would be a great responsibility for Associations to undertake.

I just goggled training for Sunday school teachers and found several links. Here is one link:

Not sure how the rest of the country operates. But here in GA, SBC churches are generally part of a local association. It would be nice if they local association would have regular 'training' for SS teachers and if the churches would make it mandatory that anyone teaching SS need attend X number of times each year. Is that really all that much to ask someone who wants to teach God's Word to believers? Let me give an example below..

Let's say that the Association has a seminar 1 time every quarter on Saturday mornings. As a Church we say that you have to attend at least 1 seminar a year. Maybe it could be done via Skype, but I would say that it has to be done at the local church, if via Skype. I know for a fact that it is easy to log into a call and then just walk away.

And I would say that it doesn't have to be the same seminar every quarter, though I think every SS teacher should have to go through a basic teaching seminar or class.

 

[evangelist6589]

Probably better than being indoctrinated by you.

Maybe Paul Washer can speak at your church one day.

 

[PreachTony]

Not sure how the rest of the country operates. But here in GA, SBC churches are generally part of a local association. It would be nice if they local association would have regular 'training' for SS teachers and if the churches would make it mandatory that anyone teaching SS need attend X number of times each year. Is that really all that much to ask someone who wants to teach God's Word to believers? Let me give an example below..

Let's say that the Association has a seminar 1 time every quarter on Saturday mornings. As a Church we say that you have to attend at least 1 seminar a year. Maybe it could be done via Skype, but I would say that it has to be done at the local church, if via Skype. I know for a fact that it is easy to log into a call and then just walk away.

And I would say that it doesn't have to be the same seminar every quarter, though I think every SS teacher should have to go through a basic teaching seminar or class.

I like that idea, actually. In my area of Georgia most of the smaller Baptist churches are in loose associations or truly independent, like mine. But we do fellowship and worship together, so putting together some type of teaching conference would be pretty easy.

A conference that offers instruction and advice on how to teach would be great. It would obviously have to be divided into age groups, because the teaching methods that work for a class full of adults won't work for a class full of 8-10 year olds. I've taught the teens class and the adults class at my church, and while the approach has been similar, I've found the adults far more likely to talk than the teens.

One thing I believe the SS class should allow for is questions. Some teachers just want you to take their word as gospel and never ask questions. Some teachers are, to put it bluntly, incapable of answering questions on the text they've just read. On the other hand, some people believe that they should never ask questions in church. So the teachers have to be learned enough to answer questions, and the students have to be willing to recognize that the teacher is just a fallible man (not using women as teachers in this example, as I don't believe a woman should exercise spiritual authority over men after a certain age [in my church, that age is 13 - so no women teach classes containing students over 13 years old, except for all-women classes]). The class must recognize that the teacher may get something wrong, so there should be the opportunity to discuss the lesson.

Personally, my teaching style has always been one of relating the history of the passage and revealing how I believe the Spirit has shown me how the passage relates to us today. I don't often go into the -ologies (eschat-, soteri-, ecclessi-), unless it is actively called for in the scripture. If necessary, I try to be as clear and concise as I can concerning exegesis and hermeneutics, admitting that sometimes it is my interpretation, and that my interpretation might differ from yours. My view is that we are going to differ on issues. So long as the preaching of the gospel in order to save lost souls is our primary concerns, then I believe we can work past some of the -ology differences we encounter.

Maybe Paul Washer can speak at your church one day.

What is your fascination with Paul Washer?

 

[Iconoclast]

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[JamesL]

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I've never understood the dot dot dot posts. What's it supposed to mean?

You agree, disagree, bumping?

Wassup? You got input?