Sunday Sermons

[prophecynut]

wopik needs a whoppin

Eph. 2:20 speaks of a building on a "foundation of the apostles and prophets with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone." This building is the Church of which I belong, if the early apostles and prophets formed the foundation under me then I intend to follow suit by worshiping the Lord on the first day of the week.

The prophets are not of the OT and the apostles are not Jesus' apostles, they are secondary apostles and prophets of the early church (Eph. 4:11)

Keeping the Sabbath is part of the law. Paul said in his letter to Titus "pay no attention to Jewish myths or to the commands of those who reject the truth" and "avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law..." (1:14; 3:9).

Hey, if you want to hack away at the foundation and build your own out house, that's just find with me, but don't expect me to help you.

 

[prophecynut]

Originally posted by BobRyan:

Christ speaks explicitly of the 7th day saying that it was made "Holy" and "Sanctified" And blessed in Gen 2:3. Hence we have a 7 day week - not a 6 day week. THE ONLY reason it is SEVEN days is Christ the Creator's SAbbath.

Does not apply to the Church which was a mystery and is not bound by the law. The old covenant was established with his chosen people, the Hebrews and not the Church.

Christ then says in Mark 2:27 that the SABBATH is made fo mankind and that HE is the Lord of HIS OWN Sabbath - the 7th day.

Jewish tradition had so multiplied the requirements and restrictions for keeping the Sabbath that the burden had become intolerable. Jesus cut across these traditions and emphasized the God-given purpose of the Sabbath - a day intended for the benefit of people for spiritual and physical restoration; see Ex. 20:8-11.

Then in Isaiah 66 we find that Christ predicts that "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship".

This is fulfilled during the Millennium; see 19:21; Zec. 14:16.

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by BobRyan:

Christ speaks explicitly of the 7th day saying that it was made "Holy" and "Sanctified" And blessed in Gen 2:3. Hence we have a 7 day week - not a 6 day week. THE ONLY reason it is SEVEN days is Christ the Creator's SAbbath.

Originally posted by prophecynut:

Does not apply to the Church

As it turns out - the Church has to listen to Christ - so you err in that regard.

And "as it turns out" the church still HAS the 7 day week of CREATION week! -- so you err there as well.

Originally posted by prophecynut:
which was a mystery and is not bound by the law.

"DO WE then make VOID the LAW of God by our faith??> GOD FORBID!! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW of God" Rom 3:31.

Rev 14:11-12 "HERE is the patience of the SAINTS here are they that KEEP the commandments of GOD"

Rom 2:11-13 "For NOT the hearers of the LAW are JUST before God but the DOERS of the LAW will be JUSTIFIED"

James 2 "SO LIVE and act as those who are to be JUDGED BY God's LAW of Liberty"!!

Heb 8 "I WILL WRITE MY LAWS on their heart"

I don't know where you get the idea that lawlessness was ever taught by NT saints or that rebellion against God's LAW was ever their command to the saints.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Bob said --
Christ then says in Mark 2:27 that the SABBATH is made fo mankind and that HE is the Lord of HIS OWN Sabbath - the 7th day.

PN
Jewish tradition had so multiplied the requirements and restrictions for keeping the Sabbath that the burden had become intolerable. Jesus cut across these traditions and emphasized the God-given purpose of the Sabbath - a day intended for the benefit of people for spiritual and physical restoration; see Ex. 20:8-11.

True enough. MADE FOR MANKIND it was to be a BENEFIT to mankind not a cures. In fact the 7th day of the week was MADE at CREATION and it was 'made holy' then as well according to the text of Gen 2:3.

Bob Said --
Then in Isaiah 66 we find that Christ predicts that "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship".

This is fulfilled during the Millennium; see 19:21; Zec. 14:16.

#1. It does not mention an "end" to that practice.

#2. I agree that it starts for the saints "For ALL MANKIND" during the millennium.

#3. Since this is FUTURE to our day - and the Sabbath was STARTED in Gen 2:3 - as a Holy Day - we know that is SPANS the time we live in today.

This would be true for any of God's Laws that start BEFORE our day and are to be CONTINUED in the future.

(Obviously)


In Christ,

Bob

 

[prophecynut]

Thanks for posting.

 

[wopik]

Hi prophecynut,


quote:
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Pentecost 50 days after Passover was on the first day.
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Pentecost was ALWAYS on the day after seven Sabbaths (Lev. 23:15) ---- even in the OT.


Our Saviour Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath; that would make the Sabbath the Lord's Day, still (Matt 12:8 / Isa. 58: 13-14.


Paul told Timothy that the OT Scriptures Timothy knew from a child were able to make him wise unto salvation through faith in Jesus Christ (2 Tim. 3:14-15).

 

[prophecynut]

My goodness, Wopic is still with us, I thought I might of scared you off.

Isa. 58:13-14
I don' think you know who the Sabbath commandment was given to; certainly not to the mysterious Church revealed to Paul much later.

Personnel pronouns are used extensively throughtout the passage: you keep your feet - doing as you please - you call the Sabbath - you honor it - going your own way - you will find - cause you to ride. These pronouns refer to the 12 tribes of Israel as verified by "Jacob" in the 14th verse. Jacob is said to be "of the land" which is Israel. If the church is not in the context then you should not include it in your interpretations. One passage in Isaiah that does speak of the Church is 65:13-15.

Mt. 12:8
Do you realize the Church is never instructed to look for the "Son of Man" who is Israel's Messiah. This term is absent from the thirteen NT letters attributed to Paul and absent from other NT letters with the exception of Hebrews.

Observance of the Sabbath and all its restrictions is not related to God's plan for the Church as evident of its exclusion from the NT letters, except Col. 2:16 condemning those who command Sabbath obedience.

The lack of Paul instructing the Church in the Sabbath or Son of man affirms Dispensationalism. Keep Jewish myths and customs out of the Church.

Again, if observance of the Sabbath is not in the context of the Church then don't include it in your interpretations

 

[BobRyan]

Mark 2:27 "The Sabbath was MADE for MANKIND"

Isaiah 66 "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship".

Gen 1 - "God MADE MANKIND in His own image" on the 6th day of Creation Week and on the 7th day (Gen 2:3) HE made the Sabbath "A Holy Day".

This is why D. L. Moody can be so certain that the Sabbath was made for MANKIND --

IN Christ,

Bob

 

[wopik]

The lack of Paul instructing the Church in the Sabbath...

the total silence of Paul instructing the Church to keep "the first day of the week".

 

[prophecynut]

Paul worshipped and held the Lord's supper on the first day - Acts 20:7

Paul had collections on the first day - 1 Cor. 16:2.

Paul practice what was divinely revealed to him by the risen Christ. He set the foundation and example of we do to today. Over and out, wopic.

 

[tamborine lady]

Please read the following. Don't just skim it and then say no.

Lets look at the whole scripture, Acts 20-7 thru 11.

7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.
8 And there were many lights in the upper chamber, where they were gathered together.
9 And there sat in a window a certain young man named Eutychus, being fallen into a deep sleep: and as Paul was long preaching, he sunk down with sleep, and fell down from the third loft, and was taken up dead.
10 And Paul went down, and fell on him, and embracing him said, Trouble not yourselves; for his life is in him.
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Verse 7 says : And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread.

Now, you have to remember that the Sabbath started on fri nite at 6 P.M. and ENDS sat nite at 6 P.M. Verse 7 also says they came together to break bread. So when they came together on the "1 st day of the week" it was just after 6 P.M.on sat nite! After the Sabbath is celebrated, then they eat. The Sabbath was over, but it was still sat nite.

The rest of that verse is: Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight. ( From a little after 6 P.M. to midnight).

Then the young man fell out of the window, and they all ran down and Paul prayed , and God restored him and then----

Acts 20- 11 When he therefore was come up again, and had broken bread, and eaten, and talked a long while, even till break of day, so he departed.

So then they ate some more,and ate and talked a long time until it got to be daylight. So he departed.

He left on sunday morning, he did not start preaching on sunday morning.

Selah,

Tam

 

[BobRyan]

#1. 1 Cor 16 "on week-day-one let each ONE lay in store by HIMSELF" -- this is not a group meeting - it is individual saving weekly on "Week-day-one".

#2. This was a great place to call week-day-one something that would give it honor. A name ... like "The Lord's Day" maybe - if one were really INTRODUCING the practice for the day or if one were now referencing the day as special.

Recall "For the Seventh-day IS THE SABBATH of the Lord your God". What a great formula God has for showing that HE sanctifies, blesses and makes a day Holy. Isiah 58 For the "Sabbath is the Holy Day of the Lord". Perfect!

What about 1Cor 16?? "Week-day-one".

#3. 1Cor 16 is significant in that it is the only place in all of the NT where ANYTHING is commanded regarding this day - and yet it is merely referenced as "week-day-one".

#4. 1Cor 16 is significant in that the "giving" of the offering - received by an official church member is said to be at Paul's OWN reception of the gift -- no "service" is mentioned on "week-day-one" just the "laying by" that is done by EACH ONE "by himself".

The details are all pretty interesting if you ask me.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[prophecynut]

Lukes's method of counting days here was not Jewish, which measures from sundown to sundown, but Roman, which counted from midnight to midnight. This can be stated dogmatically because "daylight (V. 11) was the next day (v.7).

Probably the church met at night because most people had to work during the day. Because Paul was leaving them, possible for the final time, he prolonged his discourse until midnight .

 

[BobRyan]

Acts 20
7 On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul began talking to them, intending to leave the next day, and he prolonged his message until midnight.
8 There were many lamps in the upper room where we were gathered together.
9 And there was a young man named Eutychus sitting on the window sill, sinking into a deep sleep; and as Paul kept on talking, he was overcome by sleep and fell down from the third floor and was picked up dead.
10 But Paul went down and fell upon him, and after embracing him, he said, "" Do not be troubled, for his life is in him.''
11 When he had gone back up and had broken the bread and eaten, he talked with them a long while until daybreak, and then left.

Is Luke ignoring the Bible reckoning of time because he says “daybreak”??

#1. Luke does not say “the next day begins at daybreak”. Nor did Romans use such a system.
#2. Luke does not give the start time of this meeting. We do not know if it was prior to Sunset or after sunset. Prior to Sunset would mean that the “next day” was week-day-two and the bulk of the meeting was actually taking place on the evening of week-day-two.

Luke 4:41 – His Gospel does the same thing –
42At daybreak Jesus went out to a solitary place. The people were looking for him and when they came to where he was, they tried to keep him from leaving them.
43 But he said, "I must preach the good news of the kingdom of God to the other towns also, because that is why I was sent."

Luke 22
66At daybreak the council of the elders of the people, both the chief priests and teachers of the law, met together, and Jesus was led before them.
67"If you are the Christ,[a]" they said, "tell us."

But we know that Luke used the term “Daybreak” to mean “dawn” or morning – keeping in harmony with Jewish reckoning (neither Jews nor Romans started the day at dawn). He is perfectly consistent in speak of “Dawn” as daybreak in Luke 22 and observing that on Friday evening the Sabbath “was about to being”.

Luke 23
54It was Preparation Day, and the Sabbath was about to begin.

 

[prophecynut]

Originally posted by BobRyan:

Is Luke ignoring the Bible reckoning of time because he says “daybreak”??

Luke was not ignoring Bible/Jewish reckoning of time, he was a Gentile educated in Greek culture and speaking in a Hellenistic city, he would of used the Roman method of reporting time.

Clean those Jewish cobwebs out of your head.

 

[wopik]

Paul had collections on the first day - 1 Cor. 16:2.

This was a normal working day, to collect and pack up the FRUIT which had been stored – laid by - for the poor saints in Jerusalem, who were experiencing drought and famine.


To the Romans, Paul says: “But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints. For it has pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia [where the Corinthian Church was located] to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem…..When therefore, I have performed this and have sealed to them THIS FRUIT, I will come by you into Spain” (Romans 15: 25-28).

 

[wopik]

Acts 20:7-11 is more of a one-of-a-kind extraordinary occasion than a habitual custom.

This gathering seems to be brought on by the impending departure of Paul -- to bid farewell to Paul.


Paul and his friends could not, as good Jews, start out on a journey on the Sabbath; they did so as soon after it as was possible, v.11, at dawn on the 'first day' - the Sabbath having ended at sunset.

 

[prophecynut]

1 Cor. 16:2

"On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with his income,....."

 

[wopik]

Hello, prophecynut --

1 Cor. 16:2

"On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with his income,....."

This speaks of a collection for the poor saints at Jerusalem who were suffering from drought and famine. They needed FOOD, not money.

Notice Paul had given similar instructions to other churches: "...When therefore, I have performed this and have sealed to them THIS FRUIT, I will come by you into Spain” (Romans 15: 25-28).

 

[wopik]

Famine Relief for the Brethren in Judea --


Acts
11:27
And in these days prophets came from Jerusalem to Antioch.


11:28
Then one of them, named Agabus, stood up and showed by the Spirit that there was going to be a great famine throughout all the world, which also happened in the days of Claudius Caesar.


11:29
Then the disciples, each according to his ability, determined to send relief to the brethren dwelling in Judea.


11:30
This they also did, and sent it to the elders by the hands of Barnabas and Saul.