Suppose Adam had......

[Salty]

We know that in the Garden - Eve sinned by parting of the fruit.
1. BUT suppose Adam had not eaten the fruit?
Would Eve have been kicked out of the Garden? Would Adam have remained?
Suppose Adam (without sin) had relations with Eve ......

2. What did Adam consider after Eve did partake -
Did Adam do so to remain with Eve?
Did he love Eve more than God?

Open for discussion!

 

[Foxmeister]

However we answer is just speculation.

 

[Scarlett O.]

We know that in the Garden - Eve sinned by parting of the fruit.
1. BUT suppose Adam had not eaten the fruit?
Would Eve have been kicked out of the Garden? Would Adam have remained?
Suppose Adam (without sin) had relations with Eve ......

2. What did Adam consider after Eve did partake -
Did Adam do so to remain with Eve?
Did he love Eve more than God?

Open for discussion!

However we answer is just speculation.

Answers are not necessarily speculation.

Eve began her downfall by getting into a conversation with the devil. Did she know he was the devil, the fallen Lucifer? Hm....I don't know. Probably not.

She sinned because she believed him, the Father of Lies. Thus, the deception. She was deceived, yet made the choice to reach out her hand and choose to eat. The Bible says that she "saw the fruit was good for food, pleasant to look at, and would make her wise." So she picked what the fruit was and ate it and then turned to her husband, Adam, whom the Bible says was "with her" and he just took it from her hand NOT deceived, only defiant.

Was he deceived later with later sin? Yes. How do I know that? The Apostle Paul said that he, himself was deceived and Jesus says in Revelation 12 that the whole world - meaning every man, woman, boy and girl - is deceived by the devil.

We can deduce that Adam - just that one and only time was not deceived. He knew exactly what he was doing. 1 Timothy 2:14

So why did he do it?

1. He was not "loving Eve". If so, he would have ran to God for help long before she chose to eat.
2. He is not a "romance novel" figure. He and she were sinners
3. We know what is it like today to KNOW right from wrong and sometimes due to whatever reason - we just make the wrong decision and in the moment don't really care.

In the moment - that one undeceived moment - he just did it.

 

[kyredneck]

However we answer is just speculation.

Not really.

Did Adam do so to remain with Eve?

Adam as a type of Christ:

Eve was deceived, Adam was not deceived, he made a deliberate choice to die in order to have his bride, just as Christ died to have His bride, the church.

Did he love Eve more than God?

Excellent question. Entirely possible that he did.
.

 

[Armchair Apologist]

We know that in the Garden - Eve sinned by parting of the fruit.
1. BUT suppose Adam had not eaten the fruit?
Would Eve have been kicked out of the Garden? Would Adam have remained?
Suppose Adam (without sin) had relations with Eve ......

2. What did Adam consider after Eve did partake -
Did Adam do so to remain with Eve?
Did he love Eve more than God?

Open for discussion!

Good question and I recall hearing the old joke - "Where would man be without a woman? In the garden!"

But note that when God pronounced his judgment, blame was laid to Adam and the serpent. God did not address her actions directly - only told her of the consequences.

The LORD said "Because thou hearkened unto the voice of thy wife..." meaning that it was his passivity that created the mess in the first place! Adam was responsible for Eve, he was supposed to be her protector but he let her down! He should've stood up to the serpent and told him to stick his head in a bucket three times and pull it out twice! If a snake comes around messing with my wife, I'm likely going to look for a big rock to bust it upside the head and turn it into a handbag or something!

When he relented and allowed Eve to partake of the fruit, it was all over. Eve was deceived but Adam was willfully disobedient! Adam chose his wife over God which is another one of man's fatal flaws. Had Adam stood firm against the serpent, I believe that Eve would've stood with him.

The serpent knew he could get to Adam through his wife.

 

[Mike B]

The serpent knew he could get to Adam through his wife.

That particular wile likely sits in the "top 10" of Satan's tools. Use the wife to cause the husband
to sin, or vice versa.

A very good reason why, as much as we would love our spouse, that our love and devotion to
God must come first. In that, the husband protects the wife, the wife protects the husband, and
Satan fails miserably.

 

[Deacon]

Adam was the federal head, the representative for all humanity.
While Eve transgressed God’s law, she was not the covenant head.
When she ate the forbidden fruit, nothing happened: only after Adam shared in the sin were their eye's opened (Gen. 3:6).
If Adam remained obedient and did not eat of the fruit, the fall of humanity would not have happened...

... and God's revealed word to mankind would have taken a drastically different path.

Rob

 

[Foxmeister]

So far, the responses I see are not answers to the OP's questions.

1. BUT suppose Adam had not eaten the fruit?
Would Eve have been kicked out of the Garden? Would Adam have remained?
Suppose Adam (without sin) had relations with Eve ......

If the answer is Adam would not have been kicked out had he not eaten the fruit, it's speculation because there is no way could possibly know. Perhaps had he not, God would have had him stay. Perhaps God would have kicked him out because he did nothing to prevent Eve from eating it. If Eve was kicked out, we have no way of knowing what decision Adam would have made.

2. What did Adam consider after Eve did partake -
Did Adam do so to remain with Eve?

Maybe he did or maybe he too was deceived.

Did he love Eve more than God?

Maybe he was or maybe he was deceived and wanted to have all the knowledge God had.

No matter how you answer is nothing more than speculation. Perhaps we will know the answers to these questions and more when we get to Heaven or perhaps when we get there, the questions will no longer matter.

 

[Armchair Apologist]

Adam was the federal head, the representative for all humanity.
While Eve transgressed God’s law, she was not the covenant head.
When she ate the forbidden fruit, nothing happened: only after Adam shared in the sin were their eye's opened (Gen. 3:6).
If Adam remained obedient and did not eat of the fruit, the fall of humanity would not have happened...

... and God's revealed word to mankind would have taken a drastically different path.

Rob

And if a frog had wings, he wouldn't be bumping his bum on the ground every time he landed! We can read between the lines and imagine all sorts of scenarios now can't we?

While I largely agree with Federalism, we need to remember that it is still a "theory" based on what good men understand the scriptures to say. I would therefore be careful of formulating a position in light of another view. We can speculate so long as it is understood that we are doing so.

I have already given my thoughts so I will not repeat them here but I would say that in order for Adam to emerge from this scenario entirely blameless, he would've had to have stood up to the serpent, adamantly objected to all of his lies, and to have warned and commanded Eve not to listen to him and to not eat of the tree! At this point, Adam's hands would be clean, Eve would've been solely culpable for her actions which would be deliberate and rebellious not only against God but also against her husband who had done everything he could've to protect her!

I would agree here that sin would not enter the world through Eve based upon the federal view (and yes, I am contradicting myself somewhat) but Eve's actions would still be sinful and she would have been held responsible! Question then to ask is what was to become of Eve? Would there be some sort of redemption plan for her? Would Adam "Love his wife as Christ loved the church..." and what would this look like in regards to his actions?

Where this all falls apart though is that Adam (not Eve) was the "prize" that Satan was looking for so had Adam resisted, I believe the serpent would have backed down, perhaps retreated and slithering off to devise a "Plan B?" How would God deal with Satan in such a scenario?

 

[Scarlett O.]

So far, the responses I see are not answers to the OP's questions.

1. BUT suppose Adam had not eaten the fruit?
Would Eve have been kicked out of the Garden? Would Adam have remained?
Suppose Adam (without sin) had relations with Eve ......

If the answer is Adam would not have been kicked out had he not eaten the fruit, it's speculation because there is no way could possibly know. Perhaps had he not, God would have had him stay. Perhaps God would have kicked him out because he did nothing to prevent Eve from eating it. If Eve was kicked out, we have no way of knowing what decision Adam would have made.

2. What did Adam consider after Eve did partake -
Did Adam do so to remain with Eve?

Maybe he did or maybe he too was deceived.

Did he love Eve more than God?

Maybe he was or maybe he was deceived and wanted to have all the knowledge God had.

No matter how you answer is nothing more than speculation. Perhaps we will know the answers to these questions and more when we get to Heaven or perhaps when we get there, the questions will no longer matter.

The Bible says that Adam was not deceived.

 

[Ascetic X]

Adam was the federal head, the representative for all humanity.
While Eve transgressed God’s law, she was not the covenant head.
When she ate the forbidden fruit, nothing happened: only after Adam shared in the sin were their eye's opened (Gen. 3:6).
If Adam remained obedient and did not eat of the fruit, the fall of humanity would not have happened...

... and God's revealed word to mankind would have taken a drastically different path.

Nothing happened when Eve ate the forbidden fruit?

Untrue. God said the day you eat of it, you shall die.

Humanity fell when Eve ate the forbidden fruit. Even if Adam did not eat it, humanity was tainted through the mother of all humans.

The Bible never calls Adam the “federal head” of humanity. Adam and Eve were one flesh. Together they represented humanity and produced the generations of mankind.

 

[Armchair Apologist]

Nothing happened when Eve ate the forbidden fruit?

Untrue. God said the day you eat of it, you shall die.

Humanity fell when Eve ate the forbidden fruit. Even if Adam did not eat it, humanity was tainted through the mother of all humans.

The Bible never calls Adam the “federal head” of humanity. Adam and Eve were one flesh. Together they represented humanity and produced the generations of mankind.

As I have stated in prior posts, Adam was culpable because he was responsible for Eve and it was his "passivity" that allowed Eve to be tempted to begin with. God gave the commandment to Adam and it seems quite clear that Adam at the very least communicated this to Eve and he is probably the one who added "neither shall ye touch it" thinking it would be an added safety measure but I digress...

From Satan's perspective, Adam was the "prize," not Eve but he recognized the best way to get to Adam was through Eve and of course it worked like a charm! The scriptures are quite clear that Adam is the one whom God has held responsible (cf Rom 5:12; 1 Cor 15:22).

You are correct in that the scriptures never refer to Adam as being the "Federal Head." Federalism is one of the means by which we make attempts to understand the implications of the fall, who it affects, and how they are affected. Both Federalism and Seminalism are subsets of Augustinianism which stands in contrast to Pelagianism. I will not resort to writing out a long dissertation nor will I do any loquacious "cut and paste" of articles that most here have no interest in reading anyway. You can look up each of these terms in a good theological dictionary but I will make a feeble attempt at a quick explanation:

"Seminalism" is the more pure form of Augustinianism which stipulates that mankind is culpable for Adam's sin as if they had been there commiting the sin for themselves (Inherited Guilt). They are therefore spiritually dead and under condemnation from the very point of their conception and any infant who dies in such a state will die in their sins and will be in Hell. This is the view of Roman Catholics, Lutherans, and a few others, and such an understanding lays the basis for infant baptism to eradicate this "Original Sin."

"Federalism" emerged during the Reformation and is largely attributed to Johannes Coecius (1603-1669). This takes a more moderated view whereby mankind inherits the consequences (death passsed upon all men) rather than the actual guilt. Such a view takes into account Romans 5:13-17; 7:7-13, and other passages of which one uses to make the case (a compelling one, I might add) for the "age of accountability" whereby one becomes cognizant of and therefore accountable for their sinful condition.

QUICK EDIT: While Federalism is typically associated with Reformed, Covenant Theology, I would say that it likely consistent with those who are more dispensationalist or non-Calvinistic.

 

[37818]

The truth is Adam failed to intervene and prevent Eve's actions.

 

[Salty]

The truth is Adam failed to intervene and prevent Eve's actions.

And that is a discussion in itself!
that is - WHY did he not intervene -