Supremes reject Christian student appeal

Excellent NCT-maker! This was my point only Magnetic Poles and a few others, keep inadvertently defending the secular and atheistic positions.



Teaching my child and most every child, Darwin's religion throughout most their schooling life is OK!? Though the core pillars of that "theory" was admittedly known to refute the theory in the first place! Thus they used deceptive tactics, false drawings etc to deceive people in order to give credence to his secular religion!



It is Ok, to teach that as factual and without any balance or opposing view!? Without any encouragement to seek the truth for themselves! Or any hint that God might have created all things(Creationism)!? Which is the actual Truth! Not even a hint of these things should be allowed and some Christians support this notion?

It is Ok, to have them read paganistic/atheistic poems, stories, and teach many alternative lifestyles as absolutely normal!? That morality has simply become an evolving word, to be interpreted by each individual. This contrary to mosts students beliefs and faith, but no mention of such can be made? All is simply a slap to our Lord and His Word!

It is OK to do these things and many more? Yet it is not OK to simply hang the Ten Commandments on a wall somewhere. It is not OK to offer voluntary school prayer in His name? Though our nation was based on such and historically always done? Until a Liberal court banned such in the 60's.

This to "accommodate" some minorities? Well what about the majority and Godly principles our nation was founded on???? It amazes me some Christians see this, posting of Commandment/voluntary prayer, as "shoving" Christianity down people's throats!




Again I ask. Who doubts our Lord and His word, be it simply the display of Ten Commandments, could not make a difference in School or anywhere? There is precedence for His Word in our Nation! I have faith Christians could allow the majority to see or hear His word and still be conscious of others.


As it stands all children are forced to hear their word! While completely ignoring the majority will and any part of the Lord's word! Good grief.:BangHead: :BangHead:


In Christ, Ralph:jesus:

 

NiteShift, thanks for providing the link - a good one, too. They provided a link to the objections of PWAF. Those objections are primarily to the use of the Bible as history because it is from a Christian perspective with the events as literally true (the Flood in the Early History). Questions such as "What is Jesus Christ's relationship to God, to creation, and to you?" are more than a bit difficult for non-Christian children.

 

Yes, I think it would be a good thing, especially if the differences between sects and Christian religions were discussed. One of the biggest problems in teaching "what Christians believe" is that Lutherans don't necessarily believe what Roman Catholics believe yet they both consider themselves Christian and are likely to be offended if the "wrong" belief is presented as the "real" one.

So much of the history of Europe and the New World doesn't make sense when you leave out the what and why the differences in belief are.

Little harm to the agnostic, Muslims, Gaians and Buddhists, but heck to pay if an Arminian child is taught that Calvinist doctrines are the "real" Christianity or vice versa.

If the teachers are able to teach about Christianity from a secular, objective viewpoint, that would be a good thing.

 

Believing in , being deceived, by this evil religion instead of the God of the Bible will most certainly send you to hell. Your semantics are not conducive to the discussion. And it is impossible to exclude the power of Satan simply because it is proclaimed to be secular in intent. We should not subject our children to such an influence. It is not possible that it be administered in a nuetral manner.

 

Student Rights On Campus After Tinker

After Tinker, the law regarding the First Amendment rights of students is well-established. Student speech cannot be restricted because of the content of that speech. School administrators can only prohibit protected speech by students when it "materially and substantially interfere with the requirements of appropriate discipline in the operation of the school." [FN7]
It is well settled that religious speech is protected by the First Amendment of the Constitution, even when that speech is taking place on the public school campus.[FN8] In fact, the right to persuade, advocate or evangelize a religious viewpoint, implicates the very reason the First Amendment was adopted. As the Supreme Court held in Thomas v. Collins:

• [T]he protection [the Framers] saw was not solely for persons in intellectual pursuits. It extends to more than abstract discussion unrelated to action. The First Amendment is a charter for government, not for an institution of learning. Free trade in ideas means free trade and the opportunity to persuade, not merely to describe facts.[FN9]

The nature of public schools does not justify the forfeiture of Constitutional rights. In fact, the public nature of such schools enhances the Constitutional rights of students. The school is the best place to teach students how the laws of the land apply.

http://www.aclj.org/News/Read.aspx?ID=748

 

I must have missed something so please correct me if I am wrong. Doesn't Islam reject the the Lord as Savior?!

In addition, any religion that people accept, which rejects the Lord's authority and salvation, will send them to Hell. It does not matter if the cart if before or after the horse. It is still going in the same direction.

Sorry you don't have time to research God's word though time to somewhat confuse it.

Secularism is the absence of God! It is indeed a atheistic view and word, as far as I am concerned. They would say simply "walking down a road" would be considered a secular event. As nowhere is there religion or God.

This is simply the great lie, isn't it? As the fact you can walk is a sign of God. The fact you can see is a sign of God. The fact there is a road, with birds singing, wind blowing, tree's showing and children playing. IS ALL A SIGN OF GOD. The place absent of God is called Hell. Secularism surely flourishes there.

Surely it would be OK to place the Ten Commandments on a wall within a school? Or to offer voluntary prayer. As had always been done historically. Only of course this is not what the "world" would like for you to do. Wonder why?

In Christ, Ralph

 

RM, your point about Tinker...what is your point. I have not advocated restricting individual free speech.

Ralph, to your quote above, surely NOT. Ten Commandments are religious texts. In a private school, yes. Public, no. Not everyone believes in them. Heck, even the Bible has conflicting versions. And what is the proscribed penalty for violating them? Death!

Voluntary prayer IS allowed in school...never been declared unconstitutional. It must be non-disruptive and cannot be lead by, nor endorsed by, school administration. Students can pray together between class, or silently at their desk. God doens't need, nor want, a public display of piety. He hears a silent prayer just fine. Even Jesus said to pray in privacy, not in public for show.

 

Well I would never advocate hiding them! In addition, is ignoring God's commandments or our Lord's word, a sufficient enough excuse to gain salvation? We will have to give an accountancy one day.

Yes, this is true. But there used to be a time, as well you should know, that teachers could also serve as an moral example or guide. They were not just teachers but also mentors.

Yes, the Lord speaks about praying in private. Lock your door and pray in secret and He shall hear you in secret. Develop that personal relationship with Jesus, I wholeheartedly agree. But He most assuredly does not say we cannot pray in public or teach in public. Just not to pray hypocritically as the Pharisee's did.

Jesus, also instructs us to teach and spread His word. A simple display of the Ten Commandments or a teacher leading a short prayer; for those who would like to hear is not "shoving" Christianity down people's throat. Such has little or nothing to do with your reference to praying in private.

A simple prayer or display of the Ten Commandments is not proselytizing. It seems such was OK for 150+ years in America, many still feeling that way.

Take care, Ralph:jesus:

 

Ralph, those who feel that way, have the Christian school option. I doubt you can imagine being a seven year old Jewish child being ostracized for not praying "in Jesus name". This just sets him up for ridicule and peer abuse.

The disingenous push for adminstrator-led classroom prayer is just another way that people try to impose their religion on others' children. It isn't really about prayer at all. Otherwise, those who wish to pray, can always do so. Those who don't, don't. Fair is fair, and imposing sectarian prayer on the children of your neighbors is not Christian nor equitable.

 

AGAIN Magnetic Poles! Forcing false religion and atheistic/paganistic principles on my child and the greatest majority of American Children; whom's faith and beliefs such contradicts, is OK? You also presuppose most can afford or have available private Christian schools.

Come on, you know better than this!

We will never agree on this one MP. Your view is contrary to mine and many other Christians. Your view is contrary to how America was founded and for most of our History.

AGAIN, we as Christians can surely find a way to include our Lord while still respecting others faith or non-faith. Where there is a Will there is a Way! Thus we would be able to then stop the unfair practice against the greatest majority of our children. As it stands they are forced to listen to every false teaching of the word and atheistic view. With no balance or support for their own.

God says His commandments "is not cumbersome". Plant a "seed" for our Lord and see what happens!!!
Take care, Ralph:jesus:

 

It isnt true that we have the private school option. We stil have to pay taxes to the public school system. That means that we have to pay to go to two schols at the same time. This is a inhibiting factor to sending our children to private school. So now we are coherced to go to public school and are a captive audience to these false religions being crammed down our throats. We are forced to send our children to schools that teach lies about the creation of the world.

 

Yes I'm sure that People For The American Way and ACLU have excellent reasons for opposing any biblical-based course in the schools. They always do, and never miss an opportunity to oppose such. And if they see one, they paint it as an attempt by right-wingers to impose theocracy. The point is that they only oppose such courses if it involves Christianity. The OP involves children reciting Muslim prayers, memorizing passages from the Koran, and fasting for Ramadan, yet ACLU and PFAW have absolutely no problem with it. It is hypocrisy.
You are concerned that non-Christian children (in an elective course!) would have difficulty with a biblical view of history, yet think that Christian children (in a required history class) pretending to be Muslims is a wonderful learning experience. What's up with that?

 

Of course there is an easy solution to this problem if the government would make vouchers available.

 

There is a much easier and cheaper solution deport them.

If they want to force evil upon America - deport them Give them the option, buy a plane ticket and leave immediately, or . . . take them out 13 miles (international waters) and let them swim.

 

Yeah, it's their stated mission to defend civil liberties and they would be remiss not to try.

Did you read Ralph's post? Some right-wingers, not all by any means, do want to impose theocracy.

Moslems, Buddhists, etc aren't in a position to create a theocracy here. I would think that the ACLU would also oppose an attempt on their part as well.

The difference is that these things were taught as what "they" believe, not what "we" should or do believe. That is a significant difference, don't you think?

I think the key here is "pretending". In the history class, the children aren't told to pretend the Christian Old Testament predicts the coming of Christ, they are told that it does and how to convince Jews that it does.

If students were told to "pretend" that Christ is the only begotten Son of God, to "pretend" that God is God, what would the parent reaction be?

 

Sick, perverted, evil . . . are more the descriptors that I would have chosen, rather than nice ...



Although, I did get your nice sarcasm . . .

 

It is an organization founded on communist principles. Communism doesnt have American Constitutional Liberties in mind, except to change them. And communism is clearly anti-christian.

Which ones?

Why is this relevent?

These things were forced on the 7th grade students and their parents against their will and religious beliefs with no room for opting out. When such things are forced on people in this manner it reveals the motive.

Regardless of "intent" if christianity was ever "forced" on public school students the ACLU would be all over it. You know it and I know it.

Pretending or otherwise is not acceptable at this age level. (college would be another issue) And is contrary to how the ACLU reacts to anything "Christian".

 

What? What are you talking about Daisy? Would you please show where I have ever advocated "imposing" a Theocracy!

Can you even show where I have ever said we are to be a Theocracy or formed as such?

You're clueless.

You are doing exactly what NiteShift said happens, smearing! You are probably a great painter though.:smilewinkgrin:



Just to ask you a question. Do you believe God would have us reject Him in public? Do you beleive God wants us to have a government which does not recognize Him, His authority, or His Word? Is this the kind of Government you are striving for Daisy?

As that is not what we were founded on nor what our Lord would expect. A government which rejects or does not recognize God is one that is against God. No good will come of it.

Is this what you want? Because a Nation which Rejects our Lord or ignores Him is one which absolutely scares me!

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Back on Subject and in regards to private schools.

Again, Magnetic Poles pre-supposes everyone or most can afford to send Children to a private Christians school. Which could not be further from the truth.

FIRST: if vouchers were available a partial tax refund would allow many to have that option. I point out partial because part of your taxes would still go to fund public schools. But that is something one Party continues to block.

SECOND and more importantly: what of the millions of children who do not have a role model as a parent? Or whom comes from a troubled and broken family? Their parents will never step up to be a moral guide or to try and see they get such. Thus are we just to ignore all these? Let's just leave them to the wolves though school could possibly make a difference? Such as it used to!


Again, it seems we could have the Ten Commandments posted on a wall. With a teacher being able to offer a prayer or moral instruction. For those who would like to hear such or who may have questions! God says his Commandments is not "burdensome". Plant a "seed" for God and see what happens!


In Christ, Ralph:jesus:

Y'all have a great day and weekend.