SWBTS M.Div, D.Min

[Baptist Believer]

What is the idea behind the promotion of students carrying guns.

I imagine it has to do with the spree shootings at universities and churches.

If a potential shooter knows that there is a high likelihood of dying very quickly without taking many other people out, they may decide not to do it... just take their lives another way.

If the potential shooter decides to take action against others, there's a very good chance they won't get very far and fewer people will be injured and lives lost.

Please note that in Texas, people with concealed handgun licenses must undergo training and demonstrate competency with a handgun. And just because some people don't understand handgun combat tactics doesn't mean that the rest of us are similarly ignorant of them.

As someone who carries a concealed handgun for certain reasons, I consistently analyze my surroundings and develop a plan of action for various scenarios. In the event of something happening, I can react quickly to address the threat, because much of my thinking has already occurred.

And, FWIW, having a concealed handgun doesn't automatically mean you pull it and fire... It is a last resort option when other options as not as feasible. But the good thing is that it is an option when you cannot defuse a lethal situation by other means, and/or the lives of children or innocents are in immediate peril.

But this is way off topic...

 

[preachinjesus]

Nah, lol I'm still around. Can you elaborate on "not looking good long term" a bit? That's the kind of stuff I'm looking for...

By long term I'm speaking to the long range (20+) years down the road and the institutional viability. There are lots of things going into the mix here. One major concern should be the endowment which is constantly under fire by the current regime to be moved to a less helpful firm. Another is the bloated campus facilities (i.e. new chapel) that will cost much to keep up even when the students aren't coming as much as they used to be.

I think the school is okay and will be for another 5 or 10 years. But what happens after Patterson? That is a big question. I'm not "rah, rah, rah" aroud the leader here but there are lots of fiscal problems facing the school. Also leadership stuff.

Finally, from an academic standpoint it is becoming increasingly irrelevant. People just aren't taking the school seriously. I don't care how many Dead Sea Scrolls they display, its a big question mark about the nature of their leadership.

If you want to do ministry in, at first, SBC churches and then have the freedom to move environments this might work out. Especially for the money. Go and pay 1/3 what TEDS, DTS, Gordon-Conwell, etc etc etc charge and then go and get a STM or ThM from them to "level" off. If you want to do a DMin (which I guess is what some people choose to do) go to Beeson or Gordon-Conwell. If you do an MDiv at SWBTS, go across the metroplex and do a STM at DTS, or down to Truett/Baylor. You'll benefit from the experience.

SWBTS is fine for an MDiv, especially because of the $$$ situation. That's what I used it for. Never took out a loan for my MDiv. I like that.

 

[gb93433]

By long term I'm speaking to the long range (20+) years down the road and the institutional viability. There are lots of things going into the mix here. One major concern should be the endowment which is constantly under fire by the current regime to be moved to a less helpful firm. Another is the bloated campus facilities (i.e. new chapel) that will cost much to keep up even when the students aren't coming as much as they used to be.

Gotta have a president's home that had about 4,000 square feet added onto what was already there. After the home was not adequate for Naylor, Dilday, and Hemphill. Gotta have room to store more books and trophies so the foreign students from poor countries have such a good example of how to live once they return. I wonder how many pastors could the money that was spent on a larger house, trophies, books, and a new chapel to be used in other countries where the average pastor pastors three chruches and walks between each one? Some of those pastors would be thrilled with a bicycle that would help them. I wonder how many could benefit from the saved money due to a lack of benefits for the newly hired professors?

Ever notice the increase in the number of administrators at SWBTS. Just what every school and business needs for promotion and counting the beans coming on. If I recall right there are bean counters who are even licensed in their respective states who later decided to go to seminary. It was amazing what the garbage man on campus and the my mailman (who was not on campus) knew when I was in seminary. Hired people help to control the things that leak out because they are paid and would not want to lose their job. After all if someone has something to hide it needs to keep hidden so the image can be good and any sin be hidden.

I think the school is okay and will be for another 5 or 10 years. But what happens after Patterson? That is a big question. I'm not "rah, rah, rah" around the leader here but there are lots of fiscal problems facing the school. Also leadership stuff.

Patterson will be remembered for his legacy whatever it is. Anyone who studies history knows that too often history repeats itself.

Finally, from an academic standpoint it is becoming increasingly irrelevant. People just aren't taking the school seriously. I don't care how many Dead Sea Scrolls they display, its a big question mark about the nature of their leadership.

All you gotta do is to be able to give a sermon that people can relate to. Who would ever care about SYI and helping people have answers for their faith. The fact is that the easier a class is the less a professor has to work and the less a student has to work. The professor will less likely have trouble from students because the standard is so low that everyone passes unless they are dead. I wonder of they are following the Mormon Church in making sure they have a good image. When was the last time they openly displayed their accreditation report? After all the SBC openly publishes the offering and number of baptisms of each church why not the accreditation reports from each seminary and theological school.

If you want to do a DMin (which I guess is what some people choose to do) go to Beeson or Gordon-Conwell. If you do an MDiv at SWBTS, go across the metroplex and do a STM at DTS, or down to Truett/Baylor. You'll benefit from the experience.

It is always best to get each of your degrees from different educational facilities. Each has something to offer that the other does not.

SWBTS is fine for an MDiv, especially because of the $$$ situation.

The spiritual development of people is priceless. So why not get the best education and be the best trained in discipleship you can?

 

[govteach51]

At this point, I wouldn't recommend SWBTS and I am an alumnus. Thirty+ years ago when I was in seminary I was about to take classes from J.W. MacGorman, Boo Heflin. I was taught preaching by Jesse Northcutt. I even had the privileged to have taken 2 classes from Penrose St. Amant, who was visiting professor while I was in Ft Worth. These men literally lived the Christian lifestyle. None, I repeat NONE of these men would be allowed to teach today at SWBTS. Why? Because they made people THINK. They made seminarians WORK.
I do not know what is going on there today. Two stories about the grads of SWBTS of recent days. One I have told in the past.
1. Local church looking for a Youth Minister. The two SWBTS grads they interview both want to know how long it will be before they will be Senior Pastor at the church? Both are told they are happy with the present Senior Pastor. One takes his name out of consideration, the other replies. " Well, I may have to do something about that when I'm there." They call a man from NOBTS.
2. Another smaller local church calls a pastor, a SWBTS recent grad, who agrees to come if, " The parsonage is enlarged." It seems he and his wife want a large family. The church goes into debt and enlarges the parsonage. Shortly after they move in, the pastor tells the church " It's not what his wife and he wanted." Could the church sell the parsonage and give them the money so they can buy their " own" home? The church says "No." Two months later, the pastor resigns to take a new pastorate in Arkansas, but not before he blasts the church the evening of his resignation for being " Not in God's will" for not selling the parsonage. This church his now hired a an older man as pastor with no seminary and they are thrilled.
If THIS is what is coming out of the seminary, you really need to look at another school.

 

[preachinjesus]

Well I'm not sure how a seminary leadership is responsible for their students when the students do dumb things. These examples abound, sadly, at many schools.

However, the list of profs you were able to take at SWBTS during the height of its influence is impressive. I'm certain you've benefited from those studies. My envy might be showing, so I shall return to my lurking.

 

[Havensdad]

The current President has made it well known he advocates students carrying (properly licensed) weapons to class.

Though I am no fan of that particular individual, I say good for him. Armed responsible citizens make for a safe environment.

I conceal carry a .380 with me at all times, even in the pulpit. Perhaps you are unaware, but there are approximately 400 violent attacks in Churches every year. Quite a few such in Universities, as well.

Bottom line: I gotta protect my Lord's Sheep...

 

[Siberian]

Though I am no fan of that particular individual, I say good for him. Armed responsible citizens make for a safe environment.

I conceal carry a .380 with me at all times, even in the pulpit. Perhaps you are unaware, but there are approximately 400 violent attacks in Churches every year. Quite a few such in Universities, as well.

Bottom line: I gotta protect my Lord's Sheep...

They don't have the mantra in Texas: always carry, NEVER tell?

 

[Havensdad]

They don't have the mantra in Texas: always carry, NEVER tell?

Some do, though we are trying to get that changed...

http://opencarry.org/

 

[glfredrick]

Good grammar and spelling for one. Couldn't resist.

SEBTS was by far the most liberal of the SBC sems. But it was turned around, and they have done nothing except improve. You could give credit to the various presidents, but honestly they would point to God. So will I.

I honestly believe that their faculty is 2nd to none in the SBC, although I'm partial to a some at SBTS who I've had in class or read.

I'd have to say that SBTS is still the flagship school. They are feeding the other institutions with their grads and academic faculty, Akin included.

Not sure why SBTS is "untouchable" as claimed above. I've been there and the sort of academic freedom that is so desired by some is there in every classroom. Of course those who have never been there and sat in classes would never know that for all the bad press going on out there.