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SWBTS: Master of Arts in Lay Ministry - Opinions?
- Thread starter Ed B
- Start date
A master's-level program at a seminary is going to be much more in-depth, and some individuals might prefer this.
This is a good discussion and I appreciate both the positive and critical feedback on the program. I have passed the link to this thread and to the SWBTS programs to some friends who have similar interests.
I have some friends other than the ministers at my church who have graduated from SWBTS. I've discussed this with some of them too. They both went the M.Div. route. One is on staff at a well known Church in Fort Worth. The other attends the same Church but is not on staff and preaches at senior centers. The later mentioned something I implied earlier: I do not have to complete the degree to benefit from the course work. I agree.
I just completed an MS in Information Systems. I needed that for professional reasons. Studies at a well respected Seminary in my backyard will be for spiritual edification. I may start with this MALM or I may consider one of the certificate programs. But I would prefer course work that can lead to a degree. More important, I feel I am at a crossroads in my walk with Christ. I need to get serious and devote more time to study, prayer, and ministry. I see something like this as a tool to help achieve those goals partly because structured classes can help keep me accountable - I know my weaknesses when it comes to self-study - but also because I need to re-immerse myself in the Word and I want to go deeper than I am capable of alone. Sloppy, lazy, knee-jerk theology irritates me and I don't want to be guilty of it if/when I am asked to help teach Sunday School classes or assists with men's ministry in the future. I've taught Sunday school class in the past, and I did as well as I was capable presenting the Word simply, verse by verse to teenagers early college age kids in a smaller Church. God was able to produce fruit inspite of me. But as I advance in age I feel I need to know more before being presumptous enough to lead a class of my peers.
For now I faithfully attend and contribute in my Sunday school class, and carry the symbol of my office during worship service (the offering plate) with humility. The discussion about the need for programs aimed at laymen who seek deeper understanding of Scripture and Church history within our Seminary systems is good so please carry on, assuming it hasn’t run its course.
All the best
Ed
I have some friends other than the ministers at my church who have graduated from SWBTS. I've discussed this with some of them too. They both went the M.Div. route. One is on staff at a well known Church in Fort Worth. The other attends the same Church but is not on staff and preaches at senior centers. The later mentioned something I implied earlier: I do not have to complete the degree to benefit from the course work. I agree.
I just completed an MS in Information Systems. I needed that for professional reasons. Studies at a well respected Seminary in my backyard will be for spiritual edification. I may start with this MALM or I may consider one of the certificate programs. But I would prefer course work that can lead to a degree. More important, I feel I am at a crossroads in my walk with Christ. I need to get serious and devote more time to study, prayer, and ministry. I see something like this as a tool to help achieve those goals partly because structured classes can help keep me accountable - I know my weaknesses when it comes to self-study - but also because I need to re-immerse myself in the Word and I want to go deeper than I am capable of alone. Sloppy, lazy, knee-jerk theology irritates me and I don't want to be guilty of it if/when I am asked to help teach Sunday School classes or assists with men's ministry in the future. I've taught Sunday school class in the past, and I did as well as I was capable presenting the Word simply, verse by verse to teenagers early college age kids in a smaller Church. God was able to produce fruit inspite of me. But as I advance in age I feel I need to know more before being presumptous enough to lead a class of my peers.
For now I faithfully attend and contribute in my Sunday school class, and carry the symbol of my office during worship service (the offering plate) with humility. The discussion about the need for programs aimed at laymen who seek deeper understanding of Scripture and Church history within our Seminary systems is good so please carry on, assuming it hasn’t run its course.
All the best
Ed
glfredrick
New Member
I predict that the instant you set foot in seminary, even for a degree in lay-level Masters degree coursework, you will discover that it is no Sunday school.
I've been on the campus of SBTS for about 13 years now -- two degrees and I'm currently the Manager of Grounds for the campus. I've seen 26 incoming classes. I've also seen a good number of students who arrive on campus thinking it to be an extension of their Sunday school program in their home church. Those are typically the first to wash out of the program when the professors hold them accountable for a book a week per class, plus 15-25 page papers written to a high academic standard, plus the quizes, tests, book reviews, and depth of information needed to be assimilated to pass the course. That, in part, is why most seminary-level degree programs insist on a calling to vocational ministry as a prerequisite. The work is rigourous and time consuming.
All that being said, the properly motivated person can successfully accomplish the degree program offered by my sister seminary, and the one who completes the course of study will be rewarded with a greater grasp of Scripture, history, theology, and church-related skills. But, I would not anticipate a walk in the park...
I've been on the campus of SBTS for about 13 years now -- two degrees and I'm currently the Manager of Grounds for the campus. I've seen 26 incoming classes. I've also seen a good number of students who arrive on campus thinking it to be an extension of their Sunday school program in their home church. Those are typically the first to wash out of the program when the professors hold them accountable for a book a week per class, plus 15-25 page papers written to a high academic standard, plus the quizes, tests, book reviews, and depth of information needed to be assimilated to pass the course. That, in part, is why most seminary-level degree programs insist on a calling to vocational ministry as a prerequisite. The work is rigourous and time consuming.
All that being said, the properly motivated person can successfully accomplish the degree program offered by my sister seminary, and the one who completes the course of study will be rewarded with a greater grasp of Scripture, history, theology, and church-related skills. But, I would not anticipate a walk in the park...
The SBC has several classes one can take by doing the work through Nashville. Years ago they has courses taught at churhces and each person who completed the course received a certificate. They were quite good. They were aimed at serious lay people in the church who wanted to be better teachers and better equipped to do ministry. I have used their materials among all kinds of people.
mcdirector
Active Member
When I was younger, I got many hours of good training through those church study courses. I took some in group settings through the association and took many through independent study. They have a different look now, but the training is still good. Many of those courses counted for CEUs later for my ACSI license. Not the same as college courses, but that level of training isn't needed for everything.
This is, sadly, probably correct.
And Southwestern is nowhere near the intellectual and scholarly force it once was. It's been heading downhill at an increasing rate for years. Patterson's odd, made-up degrees (like the homemaking one) are nothing short of laughable and bizarre.
In an effort to increase enrollments that has happened many places.
It became rather obvious at SWBTS when they lost many of their best professors and those who were taught by them. However it sounds like SEBTS and SBTS have greatly improved.
Where would you send you son or daughter to seminary if they wanted to be well prepared for ministry?
For several years friends of mine who are missionaries tell me that they have seen a decline in the Sunday School teaching and sermons when they return to the US each time. Those churches are not limited to the SBC. It appears to be all over.
I'm no huge fan of Patterson. And SWBTS is IMHO nowhere near the caliber of a SBTS or SEBTS now under Dr. Akin's leadership. That said, I think it's a bit of a stretch to make it sound like SWBTS is somehow dying on the vine. Patterson is a polarizing figure. People either love him or hate him - which makes him perfect for SWBTS.
How does that make him perfect for SWBTS?
They're not all seminaries, but Fuller, Talbot, Trinity, Wheaton, Gordon-Conwell, to name a few. You will lean at those schools how to exegete and interpret Scripture, as well as learn how to interact with culture. I'm not a particularly big fan of most of the Baptist seminaries at this point, but Southern, I think, is the strongest, from what I've read and heart.
And I certainly wouldn't suggest someone receive a degree in lay ministry or homemaking. Get a theology degree or a religious education degree or something similar that will prepare you in the discipline.
glfredrick
New Member
A question to consider when thinking about the stature of seminaries and their professors is whether the leading professors in their fields would gravitate to that seminary if given the chance or not. In the case of SBTS, the answer is yes -- they are waiting in line.. The staff at SBTS may be the best staff of professors ever gathered in one place at one time in the history of the church, which is not to say that there are not also great men of faith in other institutions -- there are -- just not as many and not all gathered in one location.
I agree with you. I would think the greater the rigor the greater the learning and equipping. One who is lazy and knows little would ever teach someone what they need to know to do well.
Really? I think that's quite an overstatement.
SWBTS has always elicited strong feelings from both sides of the spectrum through much of its history. Also, it's had its share of rather imposing figures as President (Carroll, Scarborough, Naylor, Dilday, and now Patterson). Imposing may not be the best word, but you get my drift.
I agree that SBTS is the greatest on the planet and best of the Big six. That said, Drs. Block, Blaising, House, Howell, Mitchell, and others, have left to teach elsewhere, and these men are some of the best in their field (Mitchell may be unsurpassed in evangelical bioethics). So to say that the greatest profs in the history of the world are there now may be a bit of a stretch, but I can't argue with someone who loves the Beeches as much as I do
That said, Drs. Block, Blaising, House, Howell, Mitchell, and others, have left to teach elsewhere, and these men are some of the best in their field (Mitchell may be unsurpassed in evangelical bioethics). So to say that the greatest profs in the history of the world are there now may be a bit of a stretch, but I can't argue with someone who loves the Beeches as much as I do
I had Block at Wheaton. He is a wonderful, heartfelt scholar and a great man.
I know there are quality people at Southern, but there are scholars and faculty that carry equal or greater weight many other places.
There's been a lot of obese people, but I doubt you're going there.