T.u.l.i.p

[gb93433]

All TULIP is is an attempted summary of essential scripture truth. I don't believe it goes far enough, but that is a different matter. But this board and the acronym TULIP are just based on what is in the Bible.

You are right it is an attempted summary. "Attempted" is just that, an attempt. I want more than attempts. Attempts tell me what man thinks about God. Scripture tells me what God says about Himself. Who will you trust? Attempts or the truth?

Based on your presuppositions of claiming to be a calvinist, then tell us the accurate interpretation of 1 Samuel 16:14-16.

 

[gb93433]

TULIP for me. Certainly there are more points to calvinism, but the tulip sums it up well.

I do not remember Calving ever coming up with TULIP. Seems to me that was at a much later date by someone else.

 

[Jim1999]

We must give history lessons here as well?

Most people understand why we use the term calvinism even when we don't adopt all the views of the man, Calvin.

We all know that TULIP, that is, what it means, was used after Calvin's death to defend against Arminian teachings. Need date and circumstances too?

Cheers,

Jim

 

[gb93433]

We all know that TULIP, that is, what it means, was used after Calvin's death to defend against Arminian teachings. Need date and circumstances too?

Not all calvinists adopt TULIP.

 

[J.D.]

Not all calvinists adopt TULIP.

Can you give us an example?

 

[Ruiz]

Three of notations on TULIP (which I hold to 100%).

First, the 6 or more usually includes the 5 Solas of the reformation.

Secondly, I personally believe that to believe in "T" you have to believe in all five. If you say you believe in Total Depravity and yet deny Regeneration comes before faith then you do not hold to the TULIP version of Total Depravity. You, essentially, believe in Partial Depravity.

Thirdly, Jacobus Arminius and Wesley both denied Total Depravity. I have in my files of a sermon from Rev. Wesley in which he bashes Total Depravity and says it comes from the pits of hell. Arminius also denied Total Depravity and spoke out against this view.

 

[gb93433]

Can you give us an example?

I have met many who would call themselves calvinists who would hold to four or six points.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

Yay, I get to be the guy that shares the Arminian joke...

Arminians also have a flower, the daisy..

"He loves me, He loves me, He loves me..." :flower:

Ha!

 

[jaigner]

Calvin was a complicated man with complicated beliefs, yet they were all woven into a single strand of sovereignty. God is sovereign, thus everything else falls into place.

That being said, it is not appropriate to talk about Calvinism while only discussing election. In fact, Calvin's student, Theodore Beza, assembled Calvin's work in the area.

To be fair, Calvin would be a "5-point Calvinist," but election was only a small part of his work and should not be taken out of context.

 

[Rippon]

Not all calvinists adopt TULIP.

Then they are nominal Calvinists.

 

[Rippon]

I have met many who would call themselves calvinists who would hold to four or six points.

There were only five propositions dealt with at the Synod.

 

[Rippon]

We must give history lessons here as well?

Most people understand why we use the term calvinism even when we don't adopt all the views of the man, Calvin.

We all know that TULIP, that is, what it means, was used after Calvin's death to defend against Arminian teachings. Need date and circumstances too?

Cheers,

Jim

Yes sir! Good to "see" you again Jim.

 

[FR7 Baptist]

Secondly, I personally believe that to believe in "T" you have to believe in all five. If you say you believe in Total Depravity and yet deny Regeneration comes before faith then you do not hold to the TULIP version of Total Depravity. You, essentially, believe in Partial Depravity.

Two words: prevenient grace.

 

[Ruiz]

Two words: prevenient grace.

That still would not enable to you to believe in Christ, for no one would be able to believe unless God draws them and all that He draws will come.

Total Depravity, by definition, says you cannot believe unless God first has grace upon you to believe. This is not prevenient.

 

[webdog]

If there are 5 points...how can one agree with "6 or more"?

As these terms are defined by Calvinists...I agree with 0, actually I have come to find the definition varies depending on who you speak to. Many flavors and shades of calvinism. Using Scripture to define these terms, I agree with 1 point, total depravity. All mankind left to themselves are doomed.

 

[convicted1]

That still would not enable to you to believe in Christ, for no one would be able to believe unless God draws them and all that He draws will come.

Total Depravity, by definition, says you cannot believe unless God first has grace upon you to believe. This is not prevenient.

Bro Ruiz,

I found the definition of "Total Depravity" via wikipedia and this is what it states:

Total depravity (also called absolute inability and total corruption) is a theological doctrine that derives from the Augustinian concept of original sin. It is the teaching that, as a consequence of the Fall of Man, every person born into the world is enslaved to the service of sin and, apart from the efficacious or prevenient grace of God is utterly unable to choose to follow God or choose to accept salvation as it is offered.

It is also advocated to various degrees by many Protestant confessions of faith and catechisms, including those of Lutheranism,[1] Arminianism,[2] and Calvinism.[3]

According to wikipedia,prevenient grace of God is included in the definition of "total depravity". Now, I don't believe in "prevenient grace", mind you, but in my belief of Total Depravity, man is completely unable to save himself, and that until that "drawing power" draws him/her, they won't even want to serve Him. However, once that "drawing power" starts, he/she then has the tools to work with. Jesus stated in Rev. 3:20 that He'll stand at the door and knock(not break it down either), and if any man will OPEN THE DOOR(looks like they have something to do), He will come in and sup with him, and He with them. Once God calls, then and only then can we respond. With love!

i am I am's!!

Willis

 

[asterisktom]

Yay, I get to be the guy that shares the Arminian joke...

Arminians also have a flower, the daisy..

"He loves me, He loves me, He loves me..." :flower:

Ha!

And did you hear about the Calvinist who fell down a flight of stairs?
He said, "Well, I'm glad that's over with!"

 

[asterisktom]

Three of notations on TULIP (which I hold to 100%).

First, the 6 or more usually includes the 5 Solas of the reformation.

This is why I opted for "6 or more".

Your other points I agree with also. They are indeed all interrelated.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Ian Paisley has said that he's a five-pointer -- "And they're all sharp!"

He will be pushin up tulips soon so no worries.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Calvin was a complicated man with complicated beliefs, yet they were all woven into a single strand of sovereignty. God is sovereign, thus everything else falls into place.

That being said, it is not appropriate to talk about Calvinism while only discussing election. In fact, Calvin's student, Theodore Beza, assembled Calvin's work in the area.

To be fair, Calvin would be a "5-point Calvinist," but election was only a small part of his work and should not be taken out of context.

AMEN! :thumbs: