T.u.l.i.p

[quantumfaith]

I agree, we know some things are determined for an exact day and hour. At the same time, I believe God allows man a certain degree of freedom.

One of the best analogies I have heard is a cruise ship. On a cruise ship all the passengers are doing their own thing, whatever they choose to do. At the same time, the captain is taking the ship to it's decreed destination, the passengers being carried along.

, I have heard that one, and like it too. Quantum conduct (physics) has taught us that the universe (creation) is not as deterministic as we once thought (i.e. Descartes). It, IMHO, make God even more awesome, in the fact that He can create the universe with variablity and still determine the final outcomes.

 

[Winman]

Totally off subject, but one person told me there will be two moons tonight, another told me that Mars will be as big as the full moon. I am amazed at what people believe. This is an internet hoax going around.

But then again, maybe it's Quantum Conduct :laugh:

 

[quantumfaith]

Totally off subject, but one person told me there will be two moons tonight, another told me that Mars will be as big as the full moon. I am amazed at what people believe. This is an internet hoax going around.

But then again, maybe it's Quantum Conduct :laugh:

Yes, I was going to a statistical analysis and drive arouind to count how many folks were staring up at the moon, many might even think the moon is mars.:thumbs:

 

[Iconoclast]

Yes, and your god is a god who determines to create billions of people to torture and torment forever for his pleasure.

Your god does not give any man the opportunity to repent and be saved, and your god saves men who have no desire to be saved.

Your god is a tyrant who controls his creation like toys, like puppets on a string.

Your god makes Judas betray Jesus whether he wills to do so or not, then punishes Judas forever not for disobeying, but for performing your god's will.

Your god cannot adapt to any situation, he is less able then men who can adapt to changing situations.

Your god cannot see the future, he can only see what he has determined.

You are correct, we do not have the same God.

Well okay then, you now confirm your complete mis-understanding of things biblical.At least you own up to it. That is why you cannot agree with any biblical posts. Thanks for your honesty.

 

[quantumfaith]

Well okay then, you now confirm your complete mis-understanding of things biblical.At least you own up to it. That is why you cannot agree with any biblical posts. Thanks for your honesty.

I think "mis-understanding" might better be stated as a "different understanding".

 

[Iconoclast]

God in His sovereignty created man with a free will and the ability to obey or disobey God's commands. Scripture is filled with numerous cases of men and women who were declared righteous who also obeyed and disobeyed God.

That makes man one who chooses to obey and disobey leaving God with the choice of His response.

To get a better understanding of election one must understand the God of Judaism and the OT within the context of Jewish culture and not American/Greek culture today.

Show us just one perfect elect of God who never disobeyed.

That makes man one who chooses to obey and disobey leaving God with the choice of His response.

GB... this as Winmans deity does not describe the biblical God. The god you speak of waits for man,then he can make a response?
The OT God is the NT God. The God of John 3:16 killed men woman and children in the flood...jewish culture..greek culture have nothing to do with it.

 

[jbh28]

Yes, and your god is a god who determines to create billions of people to torture and torment forever for his pleasure.

No, God says "I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked,"

Your god does not give any man the opportunity to repent and be saved, and your god saves men who have no desire to be saved.

Um, you must be ignorant of what you want to disagree with. God have given even man the opportunity to repent and be saved. No man according to the Bible has a natural desire to come to Christ. But nobody is saved that doesn't want to be saved. Nobody goes to hell that wanted to be saved.

Your god is a tyrant who controls his creation like toys, like puppets on a string.

No, man has a will to make choices.

Your god makes Judas betray Jesus whether he wills to do so or not, then punishes Judas forever not for disobeying, but for performing your god's will.

No, Judas betrayed Jesus because he "willed" to. You really don't know what you are talking about do you?

Your god cannot adapt to any situation, he is less able then men who can adapt to changing situations.

God has no need to adapt. The only ones that adapt are the ones that are not in control. I'm sorry your god isn't in control. I worship a sovereign God that is in control.

Your god cannot see the future, he can only see what he has determined.

And what he has determined is in the future. You didn't think this one through now did you. And I have corrected you many times that NOONE says that God doesn't know the future. But since you are wrong, I guess you must hide behind your straw man.

You are correct, we do not have the same God.

Yep, I serve a God that while I was a wicked sinner on my way to hell, He saved me. I did nothing to deserve my salvation, but He saved me anyway. He could have just let me continue and go to hell like I deserved. What a loving, merciful God!

 

[quantumfaith]

No, God says "I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked,"
Um, you must be ignorant of what you want to disagree with. God have given even man the opportunity to repent and be saved. No man according to the Bible has a natural desire to come to Christ. But nobody is saved that doesn't want to be saved. Nobody goes to hell that wanted to be saved.
No, man has a will to make choices.
No, Judas betrayed Jesus because he "willed" to. You really don't know what you are talking about do you?
God has no need to adapt. The only ones that adapt are the ones that are not in control. I'm sorry your god isn't in control. I worship a sovereign God that is in control.
And what he has determined is in the future. You didn't think this one through now did you. And I have corrected you many times that NOONE says that God doesn't know the future. But since you are wrong, I guess you must hide behind your straw man.

Yep, I serve a God that while I was a wicked sinner on my way to hell, He saved me. I did nothing to deserve my salvation, but He saved me anyway. He could have just let me continue and go to hell like I deserved. What a loving, merciful God!

Why You (or me) and not Bubba in Pakistan?

 

[jbh28]

Why You (or me) and not Bubba in Pakistan?

You asking why God chose me and you and not Bubba? We don't know other than "...according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace..." All we know is that is wasn't something good in us. It wasn't because we did something to deserve it.

 

[quantumfaith]

You asking why God chose me and you and not Bubba? We don't know other than "...according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace..." All we know is that is wasn't something good in us. It wasn't because we did something to deserve it.

I am in complete agreement with you on the "no good in us" or the "we have done nothing deserving of His salvation". Where I am not in agreement is that God (elected, selected, chose) some, but by default then "unselected", unelected, or unchose others. But that is all that it is, disagreement over "non-critical" issues.

 

[Rippon]

Where I am not in agreement is that God (elected, selected, chose) some, but by default then "unselected", unelected, or unchose others. But that is all that it is, disagreement over "non-critical" issues.

Well of course since He elected (selected) some, He did not choose others.That's just a truism. I don't see the problem there.

 

[Rippon]

AlL Scripture Citations From The ESV

Foreknowledge is not determination.

Yes, it is. Look at these verses which deal with the Lord's foreordination.foreknowege is not advance knowledge -- it's a determination -- a decree, to carry things out to fruition.

Acts 2:23 :this Jesus,delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God,you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men.

Acts 4:28 : to do whatever your hand and plan had predestined to take place.

 

[The Archangel]

Yes, and your god is a god who determines to create billions of people to torture and torment forever for his pleasure.

Your god does not give any man the opportunity to repent and be saved, and your god saves men who have no desire to be saved.

Your god is a tyrant who controls his creation like toys, like puppets on a string.

Your god makes Judas betray Jesus whether he wills to do so or not, then punishes Judas forever not for disobeying, but for performing your god's will.

Your god cannot adapt to any situation, he is less able then men who can adapt to changing situations.

Your god cannot see the future, he can only see what he has determined.

You are correct, we do not have the same God.

This is a frighteningly awful misunderstanding of the God of the Bible and a frightening and hideously stupid misrepresentation of what Calvinists believe. After being told on numerous occasions that you have "us" wrong, you should be ashamed of yourself.

The Archangel

 

[rsr]

This thread has long passed its page limit. Some cooling off wouldn't hurt, either.