Take This Christian Music Test

[Frenchy]

The bible says you can't have two masters either you will love the one and hate the other. Amy Grant and others have proven this bible verse to be true for they have served the world and it's standards, MONEY, FAME, COMPROMISE, SENSUALITY and all the other trappings that go with it.

I never said there wasn't good contemporary artist, there are. but for the most part most CCM music misses the mark when it comes to GODLY music.

Godly music is comprised of MELODY having the lead role not the beat, therefore making the words able to understand. LYRICS that are doctinally sound and edifying to God or ones growth with God and other relationships. It should FEED the SPIRIT not the flesh.

My biggest problem isn't what kind of music one listens to in his own home, that is between him and God as ROMANS 14 would point out. but to play much of this garbage in the church for our youth and lable it CHRISTIAN is down right blasphemy.

By the way I didn't know Carrie Underwood was passing herself off as a Christian artist with Christian artist lables and producers, news to me.

 

[Frenchy]

Here are some AMY GRANT quotes.... http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils%20in%20America/CCM/amy_grant-exposed.htm


The queen-bee of Christian rock is Amy Grant. Amy says,

“Why isolate yourself? Your life isolates you enough. I’m isolated when I walk into a room and somebody says, She’s a Christian and NOBODY OFFERS ME A JOINT and all the coke (cocaine) disappears. . .” (Bob Millard, Amy Grant, p. 169)

The Bible says in 2 Timothy 2:22, "Flee also youthful lusts:", but Amy says, "Petting happens . . . As a teenager, when I gave part of me to someone, I knew I was just going to flirt, HAVE A LITTLE FUN, . . ."(Bob Millard, Amy Grant, p. 30)

Amy Grant tells the Ladies Home Journal (Dec. 1985, p. 210),

“It seems to me that people who are most adamantly against premarital sex have experienced some kind of pain in their own lives. Like the people who say absolutely no to rock ‘n’ roll. Chances are it has something to do with a past sadness…”

Amy's song, "Baby, Baby", was unprecedented in Gospel Music history topping the chart as the number-one spot on Billboard magazine. People magazine (July 15, 1991 p.71) says of Amy's video Baby, Baby , "There's saintly Amy cuddling some hunky guy, crooning "Baby, Baby" into his ear and looking pretty SLEEK AND SINFUL. . ." After all, Amy confesses, "I'm trying to look SEXY to sell a record . . ." (Rolling Stone, June 6, 1985 p. 10)

In 1998 Amy left her husband of 16 years, Gary Chapman. Gary literally got on his knees and begged Amy to stay. In June 1999, Amy divorced Gary. And quickly, in March 2000, Amy married country star Vince Gill. In 1996, Vince’s wife Janis found a note—”I love you, Amy”—in his golf bag. (People, Nov. 29, 1999), As early as 1994, Amy told Gary,

“. . . I’ve given my heart to another man.” (CCM, January 2000, p. 36)

Amy admits to ABC's Primetime, “I think that a part of me loved him [Vince] instantly.”
(http://abcnews.go.com/sections/primetime/DailyNews/amygrant_vincegill_021003.html)

Though Amy has denied any sexual contact with Vince before their marriage – few believe her – including Gary Chapman. When asked whether Amy and Vince were romantically involved, Gary says:

“Could I answer? Yeah. Will I answer? Probably not. I think by Amy’s admission they’ve been very dear friends for years. I suspect most people can add. I’ll leave that to their mathematical abilities.”
(http://amygrant.offramp.org/info/articles/sep/41.html)

On Amy's Lead Me On album, Amy and Michael W. Smith wrote the "sin-temptation-adultery" song "Faithless Heart":

At times the woman deep inside me
Wanders far from home,
And in my mind I live a life
That chills me to the bone.
A heart, running for arms out of reach,
But who is the stranger my longing seeks?
I don't know.
But it scares me through and through,
'Cause I've a man at home
Who needs me to be true. . .
Oh, faithless heart,
You tempt me to the core,. . .
God, you know my feelings here
Could wipe my world away,
Ravaging the promises
A stronger heart once made,. . .
- Faithless Heart, Amy Grant (Lead Me On, 1988)

Faithless heart — how true it was. . .

“For their heart was not right with him. . .”
Psalm 78:37

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Originally posted by tinytim:
Even that is a dangerous statement... what do you base it on, your opinions... no where in any KJV does it say you are out of fellowship with God if you like, or sing CCM!

It is dangerous to play God.

All CCM is is gospel lyrics set to worldly rock and roll music.

James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

 

[Dr. Bob]

I deleted the first link with repulsive lyrics and graphics. Who would post that on a Christian site?

And as for the second, I would expect it to be based upon the same lies. But I left the link to allow any who opt to go there (and believe ANY of what was on it) to make up their own minds.

I have little good to say about modern CCM and appreciate only a small amount of it. But this was ludicrous. Just my opinion.

 

[Rachel]

Originally posted by Frenchy:
The bible says you can't have two masters either you will love the one and hate the other. Amy Grant and others have proven this bible verse to be true for they have served the world and it's standards, MONEY, FAME, COMPROMISE, SENSUALITY and all the other trappings that go with it.

I never said there wasn't good contemporary artist, there are. but for the most part most CCM music misses the mark when it comes to GODLY music.
Godly music is comprised of MELODY having the lead role not the beat, therefore making the words able to understand. LYRICS that are doctinally sound and edifying to God or ones growth with God and other relationships. It should FEED the SPIRIT not the flesh.

My biggest problem isn't what kind of music one listens to in his own home, that is between him and God as ROMANS 14 would point out. but to play much of this garbage in the church for our youth and lable it CHRISTIAN is down right blasphemy.

By the way I didn't know Carrie Underwood was passing herself off as a Christian artist with Christian artist lables and producers, news to me.

I would disagree....from what I've heard it seems like for the most part CCM gets it right as being godly music. But it's only one kind I listen to on a regular basis. I'm not an expert on it at all.
I disagree what you said about the melody and beat too lol.... but since everything else you said about Christian music I listen to fits the criteria of feeding my spirit, it looks like it's all good, godly music.

I love to hear all types of Christian music in church too...CCM, Christian country, hymns...love it.

 

[Frenchy]

All CCM is is gospel lyrics set to worldly rock and roll music.

That isn't totally true, just read Amy Grants lyrics above, that is gospel to you? actually most CCM lyrics are far from christian lyrics just read some of Rez Bands lyrics which are no different than hard rock ungodly lyrics...here is one

"there is no Heaven there is no Hell they keep ringing up the mission bells"

Chorus line over and over, they also have a song about killing babies.

I am sorry some on here are calling a site that is exposing the truth a site full of lies. if you don't read the links and what the artist actually say and write themselves you will never know. I wouldn't post a site that was lying but then again i actually read many of the links to find out if they were true and they were. You can't argue with the artist OWN lyrics, dress, interveiws, and symbolisms.

This isn't a satire site, it is real and so is God's word that shows what is Godly music and what isn't!

 

[Frenchy]

I give up there is no debating people who do not read any of the links to find out if what they are saying is true. you want to argue your "FEELINGS" instead of sound doctrine and Godly princsiples. that's ok I see many see it right and know the deception Satan has fooled many with. either he is very good or we are blind.

If any one would like the original link PM me and i will send it to you.

 

[Rachel]

 

[Brice]

Originally posted by standingfirminChrist:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by tinytim:
Even that is a dangerous statement... what do you base it on, your opinions... no where in any KJV does it say you are out of fellowship with God if you like, or sing CCM!

It is dangerous to play God.

All CCM is is gospel lyrics set to worldly rock and roll music.

James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. </font>[/QUOTE]Here’s the problem with your statement. Just because the world takes something that was meant for worship (music) and tries to make it its own, doesn’t mean that Christians must or even should abstain from it. Music is from God. This is evidenced in scripture time and time again. Until you can prove that a particular beat or melody is inherently sin, then the case is mute. I always enjoy you posts’, but I feel you are in strong error on this subject.

BTW – I am traveling right now, so as much as I would like to contribute to this debate consistently, I might not be able to get around much. God bless and hope everyone is enjoying their week.

 

[Frenchy]

Actually Brice even though God created all things even music it's distortion orginated with Satan. this is what i had written on another thread.

I believe it started with Satan...

God is the creator of all things. God did not create evil, evil was the result of disobeying God.

Ezekiel chapter 28 is about God creating Satan and his fall. God made Lucifer supreme over all other angels; second only to himself , Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Lucifer possessed gifts and talents which were a part of his WHOLE BEING: Intelect, Beauty and Music. Ezekiel 28:12 says
"Thou sealest up the sum, full of WISDOM and perfect in BEAUTY" Ezekiel 28:13 says "The workmanship of they TABRETS (symbols and drums) and of thy pipes (windpipes) was prepared IN thee in the day thou was created." and verse 14 says, "Thou are the anoited cherub that coverth" (head angel, possible choir director)

Satans Fall...

Ezekiel 28:16 say's KJV "By the multitude of thy merchandise (gifts and talents) thy have filled the midst of thee with violence (rebellion,Satan took a third of the angels with him when he fell Rev. 12:9) therefore I will cast thee profane out of the mountain of God."

When Satan fell he took his gifts with him (Romans 11:29) Since then till this day, Satan has distorted all that is good and of God. And he always mixes enough truth with lies. Even his beauty he has corrupted through sensuality, sex outside of marriage, etc. And his intellect, the wisdom of this world, which is foolishness to God. So has he distorted his gift of music, I believe it started full force in the late 50's and 60's (time when the satanic bible was written) which is a whole different topic and thread.

 

[Brice]

Originally posted by Frenchy:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />All CCM is is gospel lyrics set to worldly rock and roll music.

That isn't totally true, just read Amy Grants lyrics above, that is gospel to you? actually most CCM lyrics are far from christian lyrics just read some of Rez Bands lyrics which are no different than hard rock ungodly lyrics...here is one

"there is no Heaven there is no Hell they keep ringing up the mission bells"

Chorus line over and over, they also have a song about killing babies.

I am sorry some on here are calling a site that is exposing the truth a site full of lies. if you don't read the links and what the artist actually say and write themselves you will never know. I wouldn't post a site that was lying but then again i actually read many of the links to find out if they were true and they were. You can't argue with the artist OWN lyrics, dress, interveiws, and symbolisms.

This isn't a satire site, it is real and so is God's word that shows what is Godly music and what isn't! </font>[/QUOTE]Rez Bands? No idea what you are talking about. Anyway, I don’t think SFIC was saying ALL CCM was gospel music, more so that all CCM is, is rock music with some gospel type lyrics. By the way, John Mac uses CCM and is the president of Masters Seminary and Pastors Grace Community. I’m fairly sure he wouldn’t agree with your stance. Another thing you might want to consider is the influences, character, and struggles of the writers of our beloved hymns. Not to mention the cultural similarities they have with other music of their time. If you’re going to take a stance you must apply it fairly.

 

[Frenchy]

Until you can prove that a particular beat or melody is inherently sin, then the case is mute.

Melody is fine but if the beat outdoes the melody it becomes distorted. just try listening to a song where the beat outdoes the melody and words, you can't hear the words enough to see if they are sound. now try and play that same song in a youth group setting and see if it doesn't sound worldly and a bad witness for Christ. I heard a christian book store worker once say, since he had to play different styles of music in the store, he would have people come in and say "I thought you only played Christian music in here"

Let's not forget the story of David playing his harp (no singing) to drive out the evil spirit in Saul on many ocassions. 1 Samuel 16:23

The bible has 4 verses which talk about MELODY, Isaiah 23:16, 51:3, Amos 5:23, Eph 5:19.

Websters defenition of the word MELODY: Pleasing sounds or arrangements of sounds in sequence, a sequence of single tones usually in the same key or mode to produce a rhythmic whole often. a tone or song.
1 Cor. 15:7 says "And even things without LIFE giving SOUND, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, shall it be known what is piped or harped? For if the trumpet gives an uncertain sound , who will prepare himself for battle?"

The writter here is talking about music not words. there were in those days a certain sound which alerted the Israelites to BATTLE a trumpet sound. it was very loud and noisy.


in Exodus 32:17-18 it reads "And when Joshua heard the NOISE of the people as they shouted, he said to Moses, there is a NOISE of WAR in the camp. And he said it is not the "voice" of them that shout for victory, neither is it the "voice" of them that cry in defeat. But NOISE of them that SING do I hear" ( as they were worshipping an idol)

 

[Frenchy]

Websters definition of NOISE: Quarreling clamor. Loud or CONFUSED shouting din of voices or intruments (objects) and loud discorant, or disagreeable sound or sounds. Bible examples of noise. 1 Sam 14:19, 1 Sam 4, Isaiah 31:4, 14:11, Ezk 26:13, Amos 5:23, 6:5, and Kings 1.

God is NOT the author of confusion, but of peace as in all the churches of the saints. 1Cor. 14:33

 

[Brice]

Originally posted by Frenchy:
Actually Brice even though God created all things even music it's distortion orginated with Satan. this is what i had written on another thread.

I believe it started with Satan...

God is the creator of all things. God did not create evil, evil was the result of disobeying God.

Ezekiel chapter 28 is about God creating Satan and his fall. God made Lucifer supreme over all other angels; second only to himself , Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Lucifer possessed gifts and talents which were a part of his WHOLE BEING: Intelect, Beauty and Music. Ezekiel 28:12 says
"Thou sealest up the sum, full of WISDOM and perfect in BEAUTY" Ezekiel 28:13 says "The workmanship of they TABRETS (symbols and drums) and of thy pipes (windpipes) was prepared IN thee in the day thou was created." and verse 14 says, "Thou are the anoited cherub that coverth" (head angel, possible choir director)

Satans Fall...

Ezekiel 28:16 say's KJV "By the multitude of thy merchandise (gifts and talents) thy have filled the midst of thee with violence (rebellion,Satan took a third of the angels with him when he fell Rev. 12:9) therefore I will cast thee profane out of the mountain of God."

When Satan fell he took his gifts with him (Romans 11:29) Since then till this day, Satan has distorted all that is good and of God. And he always mixes enough truth with lies. Even his beauty he has corrupted through sensuality, sex outside of marriage, etc. And his intellect, the wisdom of this world, which is foolishness to God. So has he distorted his gift of music, I believe it started full force in the late 50's and 60's (time when the satanic bible was written) which is a whole different topic and thread.

My friend please reread my statement. Obviously Satan’s distorted things, hence my point about the world distorting music. This distortion has nothing to do with melody or rhythm, but content. I am not willing to give music over to the devil just because he tries. I’m sorry, but it sounds like you’re trying to say there would only have been hymns (possibly with a piano) if sin hadn’t entered the world. Please take a look at my other post to you because I don’t have time this week to respond much or type a long post. God bless and please don’t take anything I say to you personally. Hopefully I’ll get a chance to respond more later this week.

 

[Frenchy]

Yes Brice I understand JM stance on music and it is the same as mine. I never said ALL CCM music was bad or wrong, but it is when it is distorted with the beat out doing the melody and when it isn't doctrinely sound and edifying, this i know he agrees.

Since the link was taken away because it's examples were very convincing of the errors of most artist and they pretty much spoke for themselves. it is hard now to know what i am refering to. just use Amy Grant as an example, i know JM church and college doesn't promote her and many others.

As far as Hymns are concerned that is true but music over 40 to 50 years ago was still HEALTHY in it's musical form, MELODY HARMONY and RYTHM. The Rythm never out did the melody. it didn't make you want to act sexual and want to dirty dance or to shake your body in a fit of rage or be bebopping in your pew.
Read the article i posted on is MUSIC NEUTRAL.

 

[MRCoon]

It is sad to see how the 'hatred' seems to flare up real quick when this subject comes up.

1. Frenchy, Gregory...you guys 'rock and just need to keep on rocking!! Ok bad attempt at humor...just keep up the efforts and stay true to your convictions. Don't be swayed by the silly (dare I say stupid) arguments of "well the Bible don't say..." well it don't say you can eat at Olive Garden or can drive a car or sit in a padded pew but we do...so this is just idiotic to say the least. The conviction for separation and of keeping our hearts and mind pure are in the Bible and fit for all the ages. [Note: By the way, I'm learning this in other areas of my life and am excited for what God is doing!] So keep it up and stay true and committed to saying the truth.

2. The rest of you that like your CCM and/or other influences (i.e. smoking, drinking, cussing, etc)...please I challenge you to not do any research online or in another person's commentary but for one week make this a personal devotion and prayer and see what God tells/leads you to do. Serious, God-intensive, Bible-only study will answer a lot of issues in our Christian walk.

3. Not to attack you, Tinytim, but if you get this bent out of shape and have to verbally accost people over a simple discussion on a discussion board please try to be more careful and patient with your new church members. By the way AV1611 is in the web address and was not an issue of discussion in this thread and didn't need to cause such a reaction/distraction.

 

[Brice]

Originally posted by Frenchy:
Yes Brice I understand JM stance on music and it is the same as mine. I never said ALL CCM music was bad or wrong, but it is when it is distorted with the beat out doing the melody and when it isn't doctrinely sound and edifying, this i know he agrees.

Since the link was taken away because it's examples were very convincing of the errors of most artist and they pretty much spoke for themselves. it is hard now to know what i am refering to. just use Amy Grant as an example, i know JM church and college doesn't promote her and many others.

As far as Hymns are concerned that is true but music over 40 to 50 years ago was still HEALTHY in it's musical form, MELODY HARMONY and RYTHM. The Rythm never out did the melody. it didn't make you want to act sexual and want to dirty dance or to shake your body in a fit of rage or be bebopping in your pew.
Read the article i posted on is MUSIC NEUTRAL.

Frenchy,

Thanks for your quick reply. I’m traveling across the country this week so I don’t have much time to continue this; if the thread is open at the end of the week I will respond to your post in depth. There’s a possibility that we agree on this for the most part. God bless you and I hope you have a great week.

 

[Frenchy]

Thats fine Brice I am well prepared i actually did an indepth study (mostly scripture) on this in 1998 after dealing with the UNGODLY "christian" music in my sons youth group at a SBC. This youth pastor was palying Rez Band Amy Grants secular album, a country christian artist with lyrics like "Libby, Libby love me baby, you are the only women i need with those drop dead looks" and so on. it was horrible. the youth pastor was kicked out after we had left a year later. it wasn't only the music this guy had a problem with evidently there was more. Maybe it had to do with the ungodly music he graved?

By the way my study ended up being 8 pages long 9 counting the song lyrics of Black Sabbaths song
"AFTER AND FOREVER" showing that words are not the only important thing when it comes to christian music. these lyrics sounded very christian...do a google search on the song and you will see.

anyway best in your travels may God keep you safe.

 

[Frenchy]

I just couldn't help myself here are the lyrics. sounds chrisitian to me

http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/AFTER-FOREVER-lyrics-Black-Sabbath/C8E0C3D248E1F137482568B70013E60C


"Have you ever thought about your soul - can it be saved?
Or perhaps you think that when you're dead you just stay in your grave
Is God just a thought within your head or is he a part of you?
Is Christ just a name that you read in a book when you were in school?

When you think about death do you lose your breath or
do you keep your cool?
Would you like to see the Pope on the end of a rope
do you think he's a fool?
Well I have seen the truth, yes I've seen the light and I've changed my ways
And I'll be prepared when you're lonely and scared at the end of our days

Could it be you're afraid of what your friends might say
If they knew you believe in God above?
They should realize before they criticize
that God is the only way to love

Is your mind so small that you have to fall
In with the pack wherever they run
Will you still sneer when death is near
And say they may as well worship the sun?

I think it was true it was people like you that crucified Christ
I think it is sad the opinion you had was the only one voiced
Will you be so sure when your day is near, say you don't believe?
You had the chance but you turned it down, now you can't retrieve

Perhaps you'll think before you say that God is dead and gone
Open your eyes, just realize that he's the one
The only one who can save you now from all this sin and hate
Or will you still jeer at all you hear? Yes! I think it's too late."

Terry Butler of Black Sabbath (Satanic worshipping rock group, lead singer Ozzy Osborn)

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Frenchy, thanks for posting those links. I have them all saved on my pc (including the deleted one). I have found much on there that is very informative. Even though some would say all the artists on that page are from 20 years ago, that is not necessarily true. Audio Adrenaline, dc Talk, Jars of Clay, are fairly new and still performing, as are many of the old ones as well.

Carrie Underwood is mentioned on the page and her 2006 song 'Jesus take the Wheel'. Carrie does not profess Christ, only that she grew up in Church. It is sad that many who claim to be christians never truly knew God, they just 'grew up in Church'.

When I spoke of 'all ccm being gospel lyrics set to worldly rock and roll music', I was remiss in saying that some that they call ccm is not ccm at all, but rather worldly rock slipped in... crossed over.

When you go through the lyrics of a song and it only mentions God one time in the song, and never mentions Jesus Christ or the Holy Spirit, it makes you wonder which god the song is truly promoting.