Take This Christian Music Test

[Joshua Rhodes]

Quote by Frenchy:
Well since i do not listen to the christian music stations (because it sounds just like the secular radio stations) i am not up on all the artist of today, but i do know they are no different than than the artist mentioned 10 years ago, if anything that are WORSE! that is just natures course to get worse not better.

Sorry I disagree. So now my word is against yours. Got anything other than that?

I do know this artist is new and still around. check out her info. how this be a lie? it's not like someone made it up or forced them to write their lyrics etc.http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils in America/CCM/rebecca_st_james.htm
Rebecca Saint James exposed

OK... my first thought is whether "expose" is the best word or not.

I understand this author has his opinions... do you have an original opinion? Or do you just repeat what you hear or read others say? I don't like RSJ's stuff... I never have. But I do know that she's done a good deal of work in the area of character for young women and youth. The couple of concerts I've been to that sh'es been present, I've ALWAYS heard the Gospel concisely and without shame. And many responses. I wish some others would be as evangelistic as Miss St. James... maybe then they'd be more ready to criticize her methods.

The fact is regardless of whether you like the way she dresses, the way she sings, and the way she writes, she is out there sharing the Gospel with every record and every concert. Are you doing that every time you go to work or play?

 

[rbell]

Calm down, Frenchy.

I'm not saying that you directly quoted from Gothard; I'm just saying that the crux of your arguments are the talking points of Gothard's material...particularly his "the unrecognized enemy in the church" publication.

Yes..I must admit...when I sang "Amazing Grace" at the keyboard yesterday, playing along with our praise band...my flesh took over. I stripped off my clothes, howled at the moon, and freebased heroin.

Give me a break. Along with that break, give me scripture that condemns certain genres of music. Along with those scriptures, explain to me how God could possibly bless our church for using a multiplicity of worship forms. If what you are saying is correct, then He cannot.

Frenchy, answer me this: why do you insist on condemning most of the music written in the last several decades, based on the sins of a few? If I follow your logic, I would never sit under the teaching of a pastor, because there have been several child molesters arrested recently in our state who are pastors. Your logic once again proves faulty.

 

[Frenchy]

I have to be honest i have never been to a concert secular (before salvation) or after. But i was a huge music buff of all kinds of music. i would think most chistians fit into this catagory, my kids haven't either. so if the gospel message is only heard at a concert that isn't enough. it's good but not enough. most of these artist songs can easily be played on the secular radio staion, since they never really mention the salvation message, God or Jesus. and their style is the same.

remember Debby Bones song "you light up my life" supposably that was talking about God, who would have known? I sure didn't i loved that song, and I never knew

 

[rbell]

By the way...Frenchy...a moderator removed your OP link. Why do you keep posting from a site that the moderator deemed inappropriate?

But, to humor you...the site that "exposes" Rebecca St. James does not enumerate ONE SIN among its allegations. Most of the allegations slam reviews of Rebecca's music...reviews she didn't write and over which she has no control.

One of her "sins?" They pummel her for "having an impact on millions of teenagers." Oh boy. Shoot her.

You gotta do better than that. And do it with a website that the moderators have NOT deemed inappropriate.

 

[Magnetic Poles]

Originally posted by Frenchy:
SENSUAL music can lead to promoscuity and sexual conduct.

HARD ROCK music can lead to drugs and alchol

RAP music all of the above

This is just patently absurd. There is absolutely no basis for such statements. Comments like this, especially from one who by their own admission doesn't listen to it, is what makes Christians look like fools.

For the record, I don't listen to CCM, but there is nothing wrong with it either. At one time, those old hymns were the CCM of their day.

I also would be careful attributing to Satan what may well be the work of the Holy Spirit. Treading on dangerous ground there, Frenchy.

You don't have to like or enjoy modern music, but that is a choice and preference of styles. It doesn't mean modern genres are from Satan. I don't care for Hip-Hop, and a lot of it is indeed foul and disgusting to me. But that doesn't mean ALL Hip Hop is evil either.

Slanderous web sites like those cited utilize poor logic, flawed data, and start with a foregone conclusion to which the facts must be made to fit.

I don't have all the details, but I seem to recall that Amy Grant's first husband was repeatedly using drugs. If I recall wrong, my apologies to him. BUT, that site you linked to only talked about how he supposedly begged Amy to stay with him.

AND for what it's worth, secular music is not evil either, just because it is secular. Music is a gift from God, and it all doesn't have to be singing about him to be enjoyed. I don't expect to change your mind, nor do I care, but you are getting caught up in some really bad facts here.

 

[Frenchy]

 

[Joshua Rhodes]

...so if the gospel message is only heard at a concert that isn't enough. it's good but not enough.

You're right. That's why God and Christ are pointed to in her music. Case in point:

Lest I Forget

I, I sit in silence here
I’m filled with wonder once again
I’m overwhelmed by Your beautiful love
Now I, I’m falling to my knees, so grateful for the grace You give
The love I need I’ve found in You

Lest I forget all of Your goodness
The blood You have shed
The cross I now remember lest I forget

Lord, You wept tears of blood for me
You hung in agony so deep
Carried my sin away for good
Now I, I take this bread and wine
Remembering Your love divine
You walked through fire to free my soul

(Whispered)
Lord, You wept tears of blood for me
Carried my sin away for good
Walked through the fire to free my soul
I sit in silence here
The cross I now remember
Lest I now forget

Forgive Me

For all the times I’ve failed You, Lord
Forgive me
For all the ways I’ve fallen short
Lord, forgive me now
God, I’m so in need of grace
I fall upon my face
Forgive me

You see the tears fall down my face
Forgive me
Take my fear, Lord, take my shame
Lord, forgive me now
Purify me, make me new
Like only You can do
Forgive me now

Lord, we come to honor You
We are forgiven
We bring our love and thanks to You
We are forgiven now

God we praise You for Your grace
Before You we are raised
Forgiven
God we praise You for Your grace
Before You we are raised
Forgiven
Forgiven

Yes, I Believe In God

Whatever the cost
From this day on - until forever
I will take the narrow road
for I am not alone
I do not walk this path alone

Yes, I believe in God
This I will say to you
Mean it death or mean it life
Oh, I believe in God
For I have found the way
And I am not ashamed
I believe in God

So through the fire I’ll be refined
And if that fire were to take this life
I’ll be with Him forever
I will be with Him forever

You said “If any man comes after Me
He must deny himself, take his cross
and follow after Me”
So here I come after You knowing
when my life I lose
You give Yours in return
You give Your new life in return

Again... I don't listen to RSJ's music. But a cursory examination of her lyrics shows me that she's more in the right than in the wrong, Frenchy.

 

[Frenchy]

Here do your own research and check out the lyrics by this NEW CCM artist and see if most of it can easily be put on the secular radio station. without listening to the styles and music itself. please tell me what makes any of their music DIFFERENT! I listed a few to start with, just click on link. LYRICS only.

http://www.azlyrics.com/j/jarsofclay.html

Jars Of Clay

http://www.lyricsdownload.com/out-of-the-grey-lyrics.html

Out Of Grey

The 77's (2)
The 77's (3)
Adam Again
Altar Boys
Alabaster Jar
Susan Ashton
Margaret Becker
Margaret Becker
Brent Bourgeois
Bob Carlisle
Bruce Carroll (1)
Bruce Carroll (2)
Eric Champion (1)
Eric Champion (2)
Eric Champion (3)
Circle of Dust
Circle of Dust (2)
Bruce Cockburn (1)
Bruce Cockburn (2)
Creed
Creed
Dakoda Motor Co. (1)
Dakoda Motor Co. (2)
DC Talk
DC Talk (2)
Bryan Duncan (Official Site)
Bryan Duncan (2)
Eden Burning (Official Site)
Ian Eskelin
Ezekiel's Wheel (Official Site)
Farewell to Juliet
Artists/Groups G-N
Chuck Girard (Official Site)
Amy Grant (1)
Amy Grant (2)
Amy Grant (3)
Amy Grant (4)
Guardian (Official Site)
Guardian
Mark Heard
Innocence Mission
King's X (Official Site)
King's X (2)
Klank
Mark Lowry
Babbie Mason
Mental Destruction
MidSouth
Cindy Morgan (1)
Cindy Morgan (2)
Cindy Morgan (3)
MXPX
Newsboys
Newsboys
Larry Norman
Artists/Groups O-S
Out of the Grey
Out of the Grey
Over the Rhine
Painted Orange
Twila Paris
Charlie Peacock
Petra (1)
Petra (2)
Sam Philips
Phobic
Point of Grace
Portrait of Souls
Promise
Rebecca St. James
Sierra
Michael W. Smith
Soft Spoken
Soulstice
Randy Stonehill
Artists/Groups T-Z
Teflon Brain
U2
Under Midnight
Villanelle
Tony Vincent
White Heart
Amy Wolter
Writ on Water

 

[Joshua Rhodes]

Quote by Frenchy:
Here do your own research and check out the lyrics by this NEW CCM artist and see if most of it can easily be put on the secular radio station. without listening to the styles and music itself. please tell me what makes any of their music DIFFERENT! I listed a few to start with, just click on link. LYRICS only.

Nope. You're not building that argument with me. There's probably 40% of the list at least that I've never even heard of. But the question remains... how many people are YOU reaching out to Frenchy? How many have YOU shared the Gospel with just last week? Answer?

 

[Joshua Rhodes]

I tell you what, Frenchy. Let's move this to the Music Forum, and we can fence there if you like. You post "questionable" lyrics from a Christian singer, and I'll rebutt with some good ones. How long can you hang?

 

[Magnetic Poles]

Look at the top 5 at KSBJ this week. These don't look like Satanic songs to me:

1
How Great Is Our God
Chris Tomlin - Arriving

2
My Saviour My God
Aaron Shust - Anything Worth Saying

3
Praise You In The Storm
Casting Crowns - Lifesong

4
Strong Tower
Kutless - Strong Tower

5
Only Grace
Matthew West - History

KSBJ is one of the leading CCM stations in the nation. www.ksbj.com

 

[Joshua Rhodes]

Awesome MP!

 

[Frenchy]

Joshua Rhodes you are closed minded to the truth. just put in any one of those artist names and the word lyrics in google and see for yourself how their lyrics alone can be put on the secualr radio station, just like Debbie Boones "you light up my life' song.

well got to go have fun.

http://www.azlyrics.com/j/jarsofclay.html

Jars Of Clay

http://www.lyricsdownload.com/out-of-the-grey-lyrics.html

Out Of Grey

The 77's (2)
The 77's (3)
Adam Again
Altar Boys
Alabaster Jar
Susan Ashton
Margaret Becker
Margaret Becker
Brent Bourgeois
Bob Carlisle
Bruce Carroll (1)
Bruce Carroll (2)
Eric Champion (1)
Eric Champion (2)
Eric Champion (3)
Circle of Dust
Circle of Dust (2)
Bruce Cockburn (1)
Bruce Cockburn (2)
Creed
Creed
Dakoda Motor Co. (1)
Dakoda Motor Co. (2)
DC Talk
DC Talk (2)
Bryan Duncan (Official Site)
Bryan Duncan (2)
Eden Burning (Official Site)
Ian Eskelin
Ezekiel's Wheel (Official Site)
Farewell to Juliet
Artists/Groups G-N
Chuck Girard (Official Site)
Amy Grant (1)
Amy Grant (2)
Amy Grant (3)
Amy Grant (4)
Guardian (Official Site)
Guardian
Mark Heard
Innocence Mission
King's X (Official Site)
King's X (2)
Klank
Mark Lowry
Babbie Mason
Mental Destruction
MidSouth
Cindy Morgan (1)
Cindy Morgan (2)
Cindy Morgan (3)
MXPX
Newsboys
Newsboys
Larry Norman
Artists/Groups O-S
Out of the Grey
Out of the Grey
Over the Rhine
Painted Orange
Twila Paris
Charlie Peacock
Petra (1)
Petra (2)
Sam Philips
Phobic
Point of Grace
Portrait of Souls
Promise
Rebecca St. James
Sierra
Michael W. Smith
Soft Spoken
Soulstice
Randy Stonehill
Artists/Groups T-Z
Teflon Brain
U2
Under Midnight
Villanelle
Tony Vincent
White Heart
Amy Wolter
Writ on Water

 

[Joshua Rhodes]

Nope, not closed minded... I just want you to back up your claims.

 

[Frenchy]

Let's see I am the only one who is using scripture, great articles proving that music isn't neutral and how to deal with grey area's. and to top it off the artist own lyrics and websites. what more do you want? other than to be right.

where is your proof you haven't shown me anything but your "OPINION" not good enough.

 

[Joshua Rhodes]

Frenchy... give me some specific examples... it's obvious that you haven't even done your own research... yet again. You are reposting a list you got from your OP's site. Cite specifics, or leave it alone. You're not getting off that easy.

 

[Magnetic Poles]

Frenchy, you have made assertions that CCM leads to promiscuity, drug abuse, etc. YOU have made the claim, logic rules that YOU have the burden of proof. Links to a nutty website are not evidence.

 

[gtbuzzarp]

Originally posted by Gregory Perry Sr.:
...I will add that I don't believe the music I listen too has to be old to be good but I do NOT believe that modern musical styles should be used for sacred music,<snip>.I'll stay with the mostly old(but some new) orthodox hymns of the faith.

I guess in 50 years modern CCM will be acceptable then. But seriouly, the reoccuring theme I see with anti-CCM folks is basically that modern=bad, old=good. So back when hymns were new, where they bad until they got old? All music styles were modern at some point in time.

Originally posted by Frenchy:
Here do your own research and check out the lyrics by this NEW CCM artist and see if most of it can easily be put on the secular radio station.

Jars of Clay is new??? What decade do you live in?

I also see that U2 is on the expanded list. Uh, say what? And Creed? That is a common misnomer they hate being lumped in with CCM and I hate them being called CCM . And half those groups aren't even around anymore nor would I consider them a good cross-section of CCM. Yes there is a lot of junk out there, but there is also a lot of good.

Also what is your obsession with Amy Grant? She is not the "queen bee of CCM" as you previously stated. I personally never liked her and think she is very questionable. To call her the "Queen Bee" is insulting to good CCM artists (IMHO).

So far the person who has the best reason against CCM is that wacky sanderson fellow, who claims when Moses came down from Mt Sinai that the people were playing rock music. At least that is a basis for the viewpoint of why a style is bad and not an ad hominem assertion.

I think rbell raised this point in another forum, but if I play "Amazing Grace" in a "modern" style, does that make it a bad or "evil" song all of a sudden?

I suppose in another 50 years the discussion will be back to how the pipe organ is evil, and drums and guitars will be synonymous with church music.

 

[Bro Tony]

Wow!!!! And I thought the pharisees were dead... Guess Not

Bro Tony

 

[standingfirminChrist]

The fact is, the styles of music that are being played by the various CCM artists were all played as worldly Rock n' Roll before they even came into the church.

The Bible plainly tells us we are in the world but not of the world. The church is told to go out into the world and be a light to the world, not bring the world into the church. Unfortunately, the world is being brought into the church through the music that was first in the world.