Take This Christian Music Test

[rbell]

Further re-inforcement that the Bible is silent about genres of music:

Any of you sing harmony? It will surprise you to know that two, three, and four part harmony was not part of religious culture until about the sixteenth century. (SOURCE)

Some of you have a firm belief on the "balance" that is "proper" between melody, harmony, and rhythm. The original proponents of that theory? The pagan Greek philosophers...Pythagoras and Plato. SOURCE

 

[Linda64]

Originally posted by Mike McK:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Linda64:
Originally posted by Mike McK
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />No, simply saying that I'm listening to an artist is not promoting that artist.

Then why bother posting it if you say you are not pormoting an artist?</font>[/QUOTE]It's something that we do in the music forums. I understand that many of you in this thread don't post in those forums, so you may not be aware of that.

Normally, I don't do this outside of the music forums, but since this is a music thread and since I believe it will probably be moved to the music forums, I did.

Posting it draws attention to it.

You're drawing attention to the alleged evils of CCM. Are you promoting CCM?

Now Playing: Susan Tedeschi – “Wait For Me” </font>[/QUOTE]This thread is is now 13 pages, I seriously doubt whether it will be moved to the Music forums.

 

[J.D.]

Mike, yes, I am angry. And why not?

Remember, the OP has to do with the more outragious forms of the CCM, not the lesser.

I'm not trying to say who is saved and who is not, but how can a born again person not be disgusted with the ways of the world? Why would anyone want to bring the sounds of worldly rock and roll into God's Holy Church? We're not talking border-line stuff here like syncopated measures (as in Fanny Crosby) or a stray reference to a "prayer wheel". Some of these bands look like they ascended from the pit. Don't tell me not to judge.

Way back in the 70's I was thinking about writing some songs to market. I borrowed a book from the library "How to Write Songs that Sell". The chapter on "spiritual" music said plainly to "avoid using words like "God" or "Jesus" so your song can cross over into secular markets. Instead, use the generic term "you", or "him". Then I started listening to "pop" religious songs. You know what? They avoid the use of the words "God" and "Jesus", etc. Remember "YOU Light up my life" by Debbie Boone? Not one mention of Jesus or God.

Now that's the lyrics.

Now for the music: Why do I even have to mention the ungodly sound of screaming? How could anyone even imagine that we could stand before the throne of God and worship Him by screaming like a banshee??

And praytell, how on earth do you get worship out of self-mutilating piercing and marking of one's body?

The whole thing is ungodly to the core, and you should be telling your young ones in love to flee youthful lusts and grow up.

And it wouldn't hurt to teach them why the "Messiah" with it's Hallelujah Chorus could never be written by ANY of the CCM folks.

J.D.
Angry.

 

[Gregory Perry Sr.]

Ok ya'll(I'm a blessed southerner)..I was on here giving my two-cents worth last night so I won't try to rehash much of that.I've been trying my best to read this entire thread before I said anything else....and frankly there isn't much I can add that will move anybody either for or against CCM.I don't argue well much of the time..instead I just try to share my opinion when I feel it is relevant to the topic.After reading all of this I just have a few comments to make and then I'll probably bow out again.First...I just want to say that it truly does break my heart that so many today who name the name of Christ seem to want to walk so close to the world and the ways of the world,the flesh,and the devil.As born again Christians we OUGHT to be trying to stay as far away from that "line" between God's ways and the worlds ways as we can.Yet...so often we seem to want to walk as close to the world as we can without actually "crossing" the line.I fear that that attitude alone usually means we have ALREADY fallen out of fellowship with God and crossed over into the world.Secondly(and lastly)IN MY OPINION(and I am entitled to it)I personally believe that CCM,much of the current "Southern Gospel",and any other form of music that has been "adapted" for so-called "christian" use such as jazz,hip-hop,and country is nothing more than the worldly carnal christian churches attempt to continue in their "comfort-zone" with this present world.These kinds of music are prime examples of how the devil takes something and corrupts or perverts it and thereby deceives many.Thankfully,the Lord dealt with me very quickly and early in my christian life about this kind of thing and has tremendously blessed me with a heartfelt LOVE for decent Godly music that warms the heart and lifts the spirit while exalting the Lord Jesus Christ.I pray that our Lord will open many blind eyes to these truths before many of you fall back into the world and out of fellowship with the Lord.Sadly,many have already done so.We'll NEVER win the lost in this godless world by caving into this wicked culture.God help us.Music IS a gift from God and is usually the one thing that sets the tone of our worship when we gather together.We must keep it pure and true to our Lord or we'll pay a terrible price.There is much theological COMPROMISE going on today that had it's beginnings and roots in the type of music programs found in the churches.These kinds of music have been soundly embraced by most of the charismatic assemblies....and most of us here would agree there is much doctrinal compromise among those groups.Many Baptists and Fundamental churches are going in the same direction.

Greg Sr.

 

[Linda64]

AMEN J.D.

Good post!

 

[menageriekeeper]

Screaming is unGodly?

Jos 6:20 So the people shouted, and [the priests] blew the trumpets; and it came to pass, when the people heard the sound of the trumpet, that the people shouted with a great shout, and the wall fell down flat, so that the people went up into the city, every man straight before him, and they took the city.

Seems God has His uses for loud music and shouting.

 

[menageriekeeper]

Pure? Just how can you tell you tell if a SONG is pure?

 

[J.D.]

Originally posted by menageriekeeper:
Screaming is unGodly?

Jos 6:20 So the people shouted, and [the priests] blew the trumpets; and it came to pass, when the people heard the sound of the trumpet, that the people shouted with a great shout, and the wall fell down flat, so that the people went up into the city, every man straight before him, and they took the city.

Seems God has His uses for loud music and shouting.

O.K. go ahead and use the military operation on Jericho as your model for worship.

 

[menageriekeeper]

Know of another that used instruments as the major part of the battle plan. If God can use loud music to win earthly battles, why do you limit His use of loud music to win spiritual battles?

 

[tinytim]

God wants it loud....

(from a real 1611KJV)
(Psa 98:4) Make a ioyfull noise vnto the Lord, all the earth: make a lowd noise, and reioyce, and sing praise.

(and now from a real 1769KJV)
(Psa 98:4) Make a joyful noise unto the LORD, all the earth: make a loud noise, and rejoice, and sing praise.

Sorry for all of you that likes it quiet, God says "make a loud noise"

 

[rbell]

I'm not trying to say who is saved and who is not, but how can a born again person not be disgusted with the ways of the world? Why would anyone want to bring the sounds of worldly rock and roll into God's Holy Church?

OK, JD, let's get to brass tacks. At what point does a worship song, directly quoting from the Psalms, become "worldly rock and roll?" Is it when the meter is more than 104? Is it if you use two guitars? Or one electric? Is it if you use a full drum set? Or even congas? What if you use soft sticks or brushes...or instead of a snare, use the rim? You're gonna tie yourself in philosophical knots trying to find a "dividing line." And your line won't mesh with mine, Frenchy's SFIC, Mike's, or anyone else's. We're all going to view it differently. That's a real mess, JD.

Way back in the 70's I was thinking about writing some songs to market. I borrowed a book from the library "How to Write Songs that Sell". The chapter on "spiritual" music said plainly to "avoid using words like "God" or "Jesus" so your song can cross over into secular markets. Instead, use the generic term "you", or "him". Then I started listening to "pop" religious songs. You know what? They avoid the use of the words "God" and "Jesus", etc. Remember "YOU Light up my life" by Debbie Boone? Not one mention of Jesus or God.

You're so right. All modern Christian music is evil, because you read a book that suggested lyrical compromise.

And a question for you that everyone has ignored. Let's assume that a committed Christian musician pens a song that is not about Jesus, but rather is a love song to his/her spouse. It doesn't glorify the ungodly aspects of romance but rather extols the virtues of a proper love relationship. What's wrong with that? If it bothers you, then be sure and rip "Song of Solomon" out of your Bible.

And praytell, how on earth do you get worship out of self-mutilating piercing and marking of one's body?

Hey...I'm "unmarked" and "unpierced." I don't think that it's wise to do so. But if you're going to begin to enforce ALL the OT regulations, watch out for mixing fabrics of different kinds, and stone your rebellious kids. Be consistent, JD.

The whole thing is ungodly to the core, and you should be telling your young ones in love to flee youthful lusts and grow up.

When did ALL of modern Christian music become ungodly? 1950? 1910? And by the way...Jesus was INCREDIBLY harsh on the Pharisees who saw a God event and assigned the credit to Satan. Chew on that before you pronounce complete judgement on thousands of musicians, and countless songs...99.999% of whom you don't know.

You know...there has been some productive conversation on this issue.

By the way, in your spare time... scroll up and look at my Wednesday night lineup (the message on "Baggage" is the "take my yoke upon you" passage in Matthew 11). Informed by scripture, and using good logical constructs, tell me exactly what is evil about our worship service this Wednesday.

RBell
Not Angry

[ May 02, 2006, 07:59 AM: Message edited by: blackbird ]

 

[J.D.]

Originally posted by tinytim:
God wants it loud....

(from a real 1611KJV)
(Psa 98:4) Make a ioyfull noise vnto the Lord, all the earth: make a lowd noise, and reioyce, and sing praise.

(and now from a real 1769KJV)
(Psa 98:4) Make a joyful noise unto the LORD, all the earth: make a loud noise, and rejoice, and sing praise.

Sorry for all of you that likes it quiet, God says "make a loud noise"

As the song leader in my church, I am constantly admonishing the people to sing LOUDER! But I never admonish them to SCREAM. You can't see the difference?

Here's your quotes from a "real" King James (I suppose you mean the original 1611, not the 1769, since you have some kind of hang up on that) with emphasis added:

(from a real 1611KJV)
(Psa 98:4) Make a ioyfull (JOYFULL, NOT HELLISH) noise vnto the Lord, all the earth: make a lowd noise, and reioyce, and sing (NOT SCREAM) praise.

You can't tell the difference between singing and screaming?

You don't know what a joyful noise sounds like? Is it a blood-curdling yell? A Jimi Henrix train-wreck sound effect?

Is a shout the same as a scream?

Grow up.

J.D.
Still mad.

 

[donnA]

I don't recall any hellish screams in church. Joyful noise isn't quiet.

 

[rbell]

JD,

Ephesians 4:30-31:

Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:

And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

still mad?

 

[Mike McK]

Originally posted by J.D.:
Mike, yes, I am angry. And why not?

Remember, the OP has to do with the more outragious forms of the CCM, not the lesser.

Not really.

The OP links to a page that talks about Point of Grace, Jars of Clay, Amy Grant, Petra (back when they were pretty mellow), and Audio Adreneline, who are all about as white bread and Top 40 as you can get. Hardly "outrageous", as you put it.

It also mentions REZ and DC Talk, neither of whom have been around for about ten years and back when DC Talk was popular, they were so tame as to be considereda pre-teen band.

The 77's are popular only in a very small niche, even within Christian rock. I would wager that I'm the only person on BaptistBoard who has one of their albums or been to one of their shows.

In fact, outside of going to one of their shows, I've never even met anyone else who's ever heard of them.

In any event, they're not "outrageous" by any stretch of the imagination. They would be along the lines of a Tom Petty or a Dire Straits.

I'm not trying to say who is saved and who is not, but how can a born again person not be disgusted with the ways of the world?

I'm not as much disgusted by them as I am saddened by them.

Why would anyone want to bring the sounds of worldly rock and roll into God's Holy Church?

Perhaps you missed the post where I pointed out that I'm against CCM in the church.

Some of these bands look like they ascended from the pit. Don't tell me not to judge.

When you start judging people so unfairly for such trivial things, I think someone needs to caution you.

[qb]

Way back in the 70's I was thinking about writing some songs to market. I borrowed a book from the library "How to Write Songs that Sell". The chapter on "spiritual" music said plainly to "avoid using words like "God" or "Jesus" so your song can cross over into secular markets. Instead, use the generic term "you", or "him". Then I started listening to "pop" religious songs. You know what? They avoid the use of the words "God" and "Jesus", etc. Remember "YOU Light up my life" by Debbie Boone? Not one mention of Jesus or God.

So, what's your point?

You wanted a book that told you how to write songs for the widest possible audience, didn't you?

Now for the music: Why do I even have to mention the ungodly sound of screaming?

Why is screaming an Ungodly sound?

How could anyone even imagine that we could stand before the throne of God and worship Him by screaming like a banshee??

I don't get that, either, but I can't say that it's wrong.

And praytell, how on earth do you get worship out of self-mutilating piercing and marking of one's body?

What has that to do with music?

The whole thing is ungodly to the core, and you should be telling your young ones in love to flee youthful lusts and grow up.

I don't know that those things are Ungodly.

And it wouldn't hurt to teach them why the "Messiah" with it's Hallelujah Chorus could never be written by ANY of the CCM folks.

You're certainly not going to get me to defend the artistic merits of CCM, but that doesn't mean that it's immoral.

Now Playing: Loggins and Messina – “Full Sail”

 

[J.D.]

You're gonna tie yourself in philosophical knots trying to find a "dividing line."

And you're going to tie yourself into compromise if you don't find a dividing line.

You're so right. All modern Christian music is evil, because you read a book that suggested lyrical compromise.

I didn't say it was ALL evil. AS I said, the OP dealt with the outlandish versions of CCM. And I do believe, GENERALLY, that CCM is evil.

But if you're going to begin to enforce ALL the OT regulations, watch out for mixing fabrics of different kinds, and stone your rebellious kids.

It would cut down on rebellion, now, wouldn't it? (c'mon laugh, that's a joke).

doesn't glorify the ungodly aspects of romance but rather extols the virtues of a proper love relationship. What's wrong with that? If it bothers you, then be sure and rip "Song of Solomon" out of your Bible.

1. As a matter of fact, I do enjoy good music in it's proper setting. I wouldn't want a love song to direct me toward worship though, would you?

2. Apparently, you have a complete misunderstanding of the Song of Solomon. It is a story about God's love for His own. It is not a manual for marital or sexual bliss. It is some of the most precious words in the whole bible to the believer, and how dare you suggest that I rip it out? Now I'm really mad!! (laugh - I am mad, but I haven't lost my sense of humor)

Jesus was INCREDIBLY harsh on the Pharisees who saw a God event and assigned the credit to Satan. Chew on that before you pronounce complete judgement on thousands of musicians, and countless songs...99.999% of whom you don't know.

O.K. so now I'm a Pharisee and I'm getting near to blaspheming the Holy Ghost by speaking out against worldliness in the church?

Going to bed now.

J.D.
Pharisee

 

[Brother Bob]

Well, you wouldn't want to come to our church for the sisters and some of the brothers rejoice to the Heavens many times. I had some other denomination people come to our church and afterwards they called me over and said our church is not like yours, we just sit there and it really becomes dull, they frown on rejoicing but here you have a lot of "feeling". So if you ever in my territory and don't like rejoicing I would warn you to not come but if you like giving God the praise with uplifted voices and singing and shouting then please come.

 

[whatever]

Originally posted by Mike McK:
The 77's are popular only in a very small niche, even within Christian rock. I would wager that I'm the only person on BaptistBoard who has one of their albums or been to one of their shows.

Exactly how much would you wager?

 

[rbell]

JD,

I do hope you find the time to read Ephesians 4:30-31. It might help.

[ May 02, 2006, 08:02 AM: Message edited by: blackbird ]

 

[Rachel]

Originally posted by rbell:
Our Wednesday night lineup this week:

"Great is the Lord in Zion" (uptempo recitation of Psalm 99:1-3, using our entire praise band and 3-part harmony).
"Romans 12:1-2" (a straight-up scripture arrangement using guitars, piano, drums, and acoustic percussion)
"It Is Well With My Soul" (yes, that Hymn. Keyboard Strings, guitar, congas, and piano).
"Deliver me" (an adaptation of Psalm 31...guitar and cello).

We are talking about "baggage: letting God have your luggage." I personally know of several kids who are struggling with some severe emotional issues who will be in attendance--brought by their Christian friends. I have four students who will not be in the room...they will spend the hour in prayer next door. I can't wait to see what God will do.

I don't post this except for two reasons...I'm proud of how my students have learned to let God use their gifts and abilities...and I want to re-iterate that for many here, this is not an all-or-nothing, either-or situation...but rather one that requires prayerful discernment. I've done that. God has granted us His peace about it.

Notice, if you will: the new, the old, the ancient. Hymns of peace and comfort, celebrations of victory, and spiritual songs of instruction and exhortation.

Not a doubt we're doing what God wants our church to do Wednesday night.

That is awesome what y'all are doing with the youth! God bless all of you.