Talk to me about, soul.

[percho]

Not sure what your point is in all of this as it relates to "soul". But word order in Greek doesn't matter, so the position of "spirit" to "holy" makes no dif. And the article in Greek is simply that, an article. It is not a "definite article" as if that is all it does (notice there is no indefinite article in Greek). Many names or titles are given w/ the article that we know better than to translate. You pointed out a good case above.

Well did the third person of the godhead generate this to be soul in her or did
the Father him, Spirit the God generate this to be soul in her and he will be Holy?

 

[Greektim]

Well did the third person of the godhead generate this to be soul in her or did
the Father him, Spirit the God generate this to be soul in her and he will be Holy?

I see what you are getting at now.

First, where is "soul" used in Matt. 1?

Second, only the Holy Spirit is mentioned in 1:20 in reference to God.

Third, the text doesn't say "he will be holy". I'd have to double check, but the word "holy" is genitive and I don't think it can act as a predicate nominative to the "spirit is." But, "spirit" is the subject for the word "is" (grammatical fact). There are in fact 2 verbs in the phrase, thus you have the ESV rendering, "for that which is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit." The "thing" or "that" refers to Jesus and is the subject of the verb "which is conceived." The 2nd verb "is" has only 1 subject which is carried from the first verb. "spirit" is the object of the preposition "from" so it cannot even grammatically be rendered "spirit is holy" or "he is holy".

Again, word order has no meaning on the significance in Greek. Putting "is" between "holy" and "spirit" is no big deal. Actually, "is" was moved back in the sentence. We would expect it to come before the "from". There are much longer divisions and interruptions than this one in the GNT.

 

[HankD]

Can you honestly think of a place in Scripture that even explains "soul" much less describe it as the immaterial part of man? Probably not, but we still have these assumptions. Where do/did they come from? Not the Bible since it is not present (that I can tell, but I readily admit I could be badly wrong). Since much of western civilization is influenced by Plato's forms, we should not be surprised that it creeps into biblical interpretation.

So that is why it is bad. We are assuming meanings that aren't gleaned from Scripture. Even if our destination is correct, the road to get there is not, and that is a problem (for me anyhow).

The soul is the seat of self awareness or self communication:

Luke 12

17 And he thought within himself, saying, What shall I do, because I have no room where to bestow my fruits?
18 And he said, This will I do: I will pull down my barns, and build greater; and there will I bestow all my fruits and my goods.
19 And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry.
20 But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?​

Neither God or his fellow man was in this man's thoughts and therefore a fool as the scripture declares.​

HankD​

 

[percho]

I see what you are getting at now.

First, where is "soul" used in Matt. 1?

Second, only the Holy Spirit is mentioned in 1:20 in reference to God.

Third, the text doesn't say "he will be holy". I'd have to double check, but the word "holy" is genitive and I don't think it can act as a predicate nominative to the "spirit is." But, "spirit" is the subject for the word "is" (grammatical fact). There are in fact 2 verbs in the phrase, thus you have the ESV rendering, "for that which is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit." The "thing" or "that" refers to Jesus and is the subject of the verb "which is conceived." The 2nd verb "is" has only 1 subject which is carried from the first verb. "spirit" is the object of the preposition "from" so it cannot even grammatically be rendered "spirit is holy" or "he is holy".

Again, word order has no meaning on the significance in Greek. Putting "is" between "holy" and "spirit" is no big deal. Actually, "is" was moved back in the sentence. We would expect it to come before the "from". There are much longer divisions and interruptions than this one in the GNT.

Soul isn't there I was interrupting into the text my concept of beginning of soul being experiencing life with even birth itself being an experience of life, therefore from that moment one, a certain man, (soul, flesh and blood), would need to be born again, to inherit/enter the kingdom of God

From a word of God concept, would it be fair to say the flesh is living soul in the blood as in say Gen 9:4?

Moving from Greek to Hebrew. I know no Hebrew either.

Almost as if when the soul dies the flesh begins to rot.

Which just brought forth to my mind. Hope revmwc reads this, just who was dead Lazarus the soul or Lazarus the body/flesh?

 

[percho]

The soul is the seat of self awareness or self communication:

Luke 12

17 And he thought within himself, saying, What shall I do, because I have no room where to bestow my fruits?
18 And he said, This will I do: I will pull down my barns, and build greater; and there will I bestow all my fruits and my goods.
19 And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry.
20 But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?​

Neither God or his fellow man was in this man's thoughts and therefore a fool as the scripture declares.​

HankD​

That is what I said I think. We become soul through living.

Speaking of communication. I believe the most used description of God is, "The Living God", 51 times with the article, definite or indefinite, God knows.

Do you know what was taking place when this is first said of God?

God had just finished speaking to the children of Israel from Mt Sinai.

Did God speaking to them influence them in thinking of him as living?

 

[HankD]

That is what I said I think. We become soul through living.

Speaking of communication. I believe the most used description of God is, "The Living God", 51 times with the article, definite or indefinite, God knows.

Do you know what was taking place when this is first said of God?

God had just finished speaking to the children of Israel from Mt Sinai.

Did God speaking to them influence them in thinking of him as living?

His very name.

The Hebrew tetragrammaton YHVH is the Hebrew concatenation of I AM, I WAS, I WILL BE into one configuration of 4 letters - in and of itself means the Eternal One and the source of ALL life.

This is also found in the NT, in the Revelation of Jesus Christ:

Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.​

HankD

 

[percho]

His very name.

The Hebrew tetragrammaton YHVH is the Hebrew concatenation of I AM, I WAS, I WILL BE into one configuration of 4 letters - in and of itself means the Eternal One and the source of ALL life.

This is also found in the NT, in the Revelation of Jesus Christ:

Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.​

HankD

I agree Hank. I goggled אֶֽהְיֶה and got this which I find interesting:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100816151107AAVP1xS

BTW I goggled אֶֽהְיֶה because Scripture4all Hebrew interlinear had translated
אֶֽהְיֶה as I shall become, who I am becoming.