Talking during church

[saturneptune]

I think one of the best incidents I have ever seen was from a former pastor of mine. He was giving a sermon, and two members in the back were flapping jaws as usual. On this particular Sunday, it was not a whisper, but they were talking like you are I would during a normal conversation. The pastor stopped the sermon and asked if they would like to finish the sermon for him. Not another word was said.

Another funny, this same pastor would always call on a person asleep to do the closing prayer.

 

[abcgrad94]

It could be an indicator of unbelief and or a lack of proper preparation for worship.The person who does this on a regular basis does not see the time as belonging to God.
If it was understood that it is the Lord's Day and we gather to hear from God in and through His word and we give ourselves to hearing with a view to obey what is being preached.

Bingo! Church services are for worship, not for serving as a social club. Having friends and socializing with other Christians is fine, but should be done before or after services, not during.

 

[nodak]

Of course it is rude.

And of course it is wrong.

However, in a church where it happens a lot, not only to do the yappers need to be taught better, but there might be an issue with the service itself.

If it is entertainment style "worship" might need to change that.

And--trying to be gentle--sometimes a song leader doesn't know when to quit, or a choir, or, dare I say it, a preacher is no Spurgeon and would do better to preach shorter, pithier sermons.

DH and I were just discussing this morning: Most churches used to, and some still do, pack a one hour wallop that affected you all week and eternally. And some today just yammer on eternally:sleeping_2:

 

[Bronconagurski]

Interesting that I had to quit teaching a few weeks ago and go in to the hall where there was a gabfest going on by a group who had just left their class.
I stopped for a few seconds, then opened my door and As graciously as I could, asked them to " hold it down a little"!
Ain't what I wanted to say, but I did restrain my emotions and hopefully I was somewhat cordial, yet firm.
Anyway I was surprised to see many of the class members nodding in approval as I came back in.
Surprising thing about this is that I'm a VERY non-confrontational person - usually!

I'm afraid that church, to many, is little more than a continuation of Saturday night's social activities.

Good for you! Kids need a guiding hand, firm, but gracious, and you seem to have handled that just right.

 

[Bronconagurski]

I learned it from my wife---a school teacher.

Believe me, I was so angry for a half second there, I could have shot lightning bolts out of my fingertips like the Emperor did in Return of the Jedi.

I hear you! Sometimes I would say, if what you two are talking is so interesting, please let the whole class in on it. I had to be careful with who I said that to, however, as some would want to do it just to waste the teacher's time. All kidding aside, I love to see some of D. James Kennedy's old services where he brought the service to order and the people knew the presence of the Lord was in the place and they should act accordingly.

We as Christians should prepare ourself before any service to praise and honor the Lord, and to hear what he has to say thru the preaching of His Word. We are all guilty of taking for granted the preaching of the Word. How blessed it is to hear from a Holy God!

 

[just-want-peace]

Good for you! Kids need a guiding hand, firm, but gracious, and you seem to have handled that just right.

Unfortunately, this was not a "kid" problem! These offenders were in the 30-50 YO range!!!!:BangHead:
(More's the pity!!)

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I think one of the best incidents I have ever seen was from a former pastor of mine. He was giving a sermon, and two members in the back were flapping jaws as usual. On this particular Sunday, it was not a whisper, but they were talking like you are I would during a normal conversation. The pastor stopped the sermon and asked if they would like to finish the sermon for him. Not another word was said.

Another funny, this same pastor would always call on a person asleep to do the closing prayer.

Dear lord...next time please give us a pastor I can listen to without falling asleep. Amen.:sleeping_2:

 

[abcgrad94]

sometimes a song leader doesn't know when to quit, or a choir, or, dare I say it, a preacher is no Spurgeon and would do better to preach shorter, pithier sermons.

DH and I were just discussing this morning: Most churches used to, and some still do, pack a one hour wallop that affected you all week and eternally. And some today just yammer on eternally:sleeping_2:

That's a good point, Nodak. The mind can only handle what the seat can endure. Most folks' seats get restless after an hour.

 

[nodak]

Thanks!

One of the bad things about concert or block worship(all the songs, then all the prayers, then a long sermon) is that it doesn't keep people as constantly engaged with the service. I realize with praise teams it is tougher to do the hymn sandwich style service, but it can be done and done well no matter what genre the music.

Once had a wonderful pastor in NM named Bro Joe who put a cough drop or hard candy in his cheek and when it was gone, stopped the sermon.

He would tell us that if he left folks hungry for more they'd be back. Didn't want to leave folks wondering if he was ever gonna finish.

My personal pet peeve is the pastors who do not stay "on agenda." Yes, sometimes the Holy Spirit does shake things up and I do not denigrate that. But sometimes it is just the habit of chasing every rabbit that pops into his head, and that isn't good.

Respect is a two way street. We try as a family to come to church in a prepared, reverent, respectful state of heart and do our best to respect our leadership. It is a huge boon when the leadership also respects the people in the pew enough to start on time, stay on track, and finish on time unless dead certain it was the Holy Spirit that threw a monkey wrench in the order of worship.

 

[Revmitchell]

It may be respectful to start on time to you but not everyone sees it that way. If you are going to start on time in a Navajo church you will most likely be there by yourself.

We need to be careful about judging people or leadership by personal preferences.

 

[Revmitchell]

That's a good point, Nodak. The mind can only handle what the seat can endure. Most folks' seats get restless after an hour.

Lack of discipline, nothing more. I bet they can sit in a movie house for more than an hour.

 

[Salty]

It may be respectful to start on time to you but not everyone sees it that way. If you are going to start on time in a Navajo church you will most likely be there by yourself.

We need to be careful about judging people or leadership by personal preferences.

Just curious - what was the average "lateness" of the Navajo church?


Remember Clinton Standard Time?

 

[nodak]

Now I am laughing, because we were surrounded by Navajo, Ute, and Jicarilla Apaches.

Yes, I am well familiar with "rez time" and the different structure for rez churches.

But let's face it--most are not rez churches. There is a huge difference between starting late waiting for someone in a small church where the people may travel literally 65 miles of dirt road to get there, and in the pastor just chatting up people in the hallway of a non rez large church

I know a pastor in my area who wanted the doors locked so people could leave but not enter after the worship service started. Didn't happen, couldn't by fire code, but he felt it disrespectful to arrive late. Also blasted from the pulpit anyone who wanted to leave before he finished the service. Um, but seriously, sometimes the service lasted 2 hours and some of the folks had to go to work, or small kiddoes couldn't hang on that long, or plain old needed to go to the bathroom.

Most of us live in working or middle class culture, not rez culture, so having both the people behave respectfully and the pastor respect the people, their tushes, and their time works wonderfully.

 

[nodak]

Couldn't get edit to work, so will post again.

Re Navajo "lateness". It varies. Usually we would drive past the housing on the way to the little church and honk the van. Figured people needed time to clean up, dress, etc and then make it to the church. So mission staff might arrive up to an hour before church actually started.

As to how long to you wait? Well, if you have talked to so and so and know they are coming, until they get there. However long that takes.

BUT--that said--many in mission ministry on the rez were moving, at least when we left, to an "on time" basis for the broader sake of the Navajo. The cultural concept that time is truly expandable doesn't work well for them in school and on the job off the rez. So in accomadating that culture, you may be actually being kind of racists, assuming they cannot adapt to another culture in order to succeed.

It was a huge issue of contention, with some feeling it disrespectful to the Navajo not to wait and some feeling it was disrespectful to the Navajo to not hold to the broader cultural norm.

My feeling? Do the small outlying mission church the Navajo way, and don't expect every church in Farmington, Bloomfield, and Aztec to follow suit.

And surely don't expect some church in Peoria to run on "preacher time" or "late layman time" because that is what they do on the rez.

 

[Revmitchell]

As someone who pastored a Navajo church, it is a fact that if you expect to start on time every week you will find yourself starting by yourself. You can call it what you want but being by yourself is being by yourself.

If they are not there yet, they are just not there yet. And empty church is an empty church.

The concept that it is disrespectful not to start on time is nothing more than a personal preference. You can judge people based on personal preferences but then you are just seen as legalistic.

 

[nodak]

I'm not sure why you choose to argue.

Simple fact is, the OP and the replies were not regarding reservation churches. It was tossed in that it is wrong to judge leadership because on the rez it is rude to start on time, basically.

Point was answering some questions--and I have extensive time on the rez. There are differing points of view. Never once, however, would I have thought that starting on time meant an empty church. It would mean many would miss, and I tried to explain to non rez people that there are reasons to wait beyond expandable time, and differing views on it.

So yes, many times in other cultures than mainstream white north american there is a reason that is valid to the culture not to start or stop on time.

But most on BB are in mainstream white north american culture, or so it seems. Under those conditions, talking while your pastor talks (also fine in many cultures, even expected) is rude. So is endlessly pontificating while your folks in the pews backsides slowly grow petrified.

Again, both those in pew and those behind the pulpit need to respect each other.

 

[Salty]

I'm not sure why you choose to argue.

Simple fact is, the OP and the replies were not regarding reservation churches. It was tossed in that it is wrong to judge leadership because on the rez it is rude to start on time, basically. ...

(to continue "on time") someone should start a new thread.

Yes, lets get back to the OP . I think it is very impolite to talk during church (other than a good Amen). And worse is cell phones - if you must talk (ie doctor) than sit in the rear and step out if an URGENT call comes thur.

My cell phone can be put on vibrate. That way I will not disturb anyone and when church is over, I can check call ID and call the individual back.

As Nodak stated - its a matter of respect.

My goodness at the movie house if you talk (too much) you will be escorted out - without a refund. Is the movie house more sacred than the House of the Lord?

 

[Revmitchell]

I'm not sure why you choose to argue.

Simple fact is, the OP and the replies were not regarding reservation churches. It was tossed in that it is wrong to judge leadership because on the rez it is rude to start on time, basically.

Your characterization of what I said is interesting. Not correct but interesting.


I used an example of other cultures than your own. Your issue with being "on time" and your personal judgment of that issue is legalistic at best.

By the way I hate to be late or start late. But I have had to temper my personal choices on that.

Another example of cultures who have a different view of being somewhere on time or starting on time is the Jamaican culture it is much like the Navajo culture. So it is not just a "rez" thing.

Nice try at a redirect though. You should be commended at your skill in that area.

 

[ChristianSoldier]

It is disrespectful

It is disrespectful, they can socialize before or after church but not during. It would also be any Bible believing and practicing preachers job to hold his church membership to be orderly and respectful. Just as a teacher in class hushes a student, so shall the pastor- out of his respect for the Christians sitting in the other pews TRYING to worship!