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Targeting the Roman Catholic

Earth Wind and Fire

Earth Wind and Fire

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This is my OP & once again this bickering over OSAS rears its head so Im putting this to bed. Come to think of it, when I hear the following Scriptures, I can sleep peacefully at night.

John 6:39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

John 10:28-30 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand. I and my Father are one.

Romans 8:33-39 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth. Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written, for thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

2Timothy 4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

1Peter 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

We done here? Lets move back to my origional OP please! :BangHead:
 
Earth Wind and Fire

Earth Wind and Fire

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Yeshua1 said:
No, not even that, as the people Paul addressed were still living for the Lord jesus, were trying to live as believers, BIG problem was that they linked how to live in a right way for God by observing and keeping the law, NOT by relying upon the Grace of God to so such!

their method and motination for living as believers were in the wrong place!

they were christians who tried to still keep ;ivng as under OT Covenant, even though now under a new and better one!

Would be like those who today would say "must not watch tv/movies/listen to just Jesus music, cannot ever do ANYTHING "worldly!"

they meant well to live and act as they ought for Jesus, but were trying to get there by human efforts/works/flesh, not by the Holy Spirit and grace!
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But Ive been saying that all along......Perhaps the term "Judiasiers" best describes what you are referencing.

I saw allot of that in the Orthodox Presbyterian Church BTW. Almost thought they were going to light Sabbath Candles & put on a Yarmulke.
 
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preacher4truth

Active Member
Earth said:
But Ive been saying that all along......Perhaps the term "Judiasiers" best describes what you are referencing.

I saw allot of that in the Orthodox Presbyterian Church BTW. Almost thought they were going to light Sabbath Candles & put on a Yarmulke.
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You do realize that the church is infiltrated with tares, correct? (Matthew 13)

Sheep will act like sheep, goats will act like goats. So what we have is persons like EV6 who come along, preach error, tell goats to act like sheep, and for a time a goat acts like a sheep by reforming via GUILT and we know there can be no new nature without regeneration.

You get that, right? I'm talking about the entire above, not just the latter. I'm sure you get the latter.

Let's put it like this, God's people are caused to walk in His way -- Ezekiel 36:22ff (not that they are without sin, but His sheep DO follow). That said goats will do all the things you've described in your OP. So, who are you trying to fix? Goats?

When you come out on these rants about the church, you're really talking about the goats IN the church. You're not going to rid all of them from within the walls of local congregations. Just sit back, ponder, contemplate all this and what we are REALLY dealing with. This should change your view of the CHURCH which has been, frankly, from a denigrating view on your part, seen in your many posts. Now, it could be that a FEW of those who behave like goats are actually unregenerate elect.

I'm reading a really good book on this now, almost done. If you'd like to check it out, PM me and I'll give you the info. No need to cast pearls over it. :thumbs:
 
Earth Wind and Fire

Earth Wind and Fire

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The following 4 paragraphs are taken from Dr. Martyn Lloyd-Jones book The Puritans.

But more, Calvinism leads to assurance, and assurance of necessity leads to joy. You cannot be assured quietly and unmoved by the fact that your sins are forgiven, and that you are a child of God, and that you are going to heaven: it is impossible. Assurance must lead to joy. Not only that; knowing this leads to prayer. God is my Father. I am adopted. I know Him. I have an entrance, and I want to go there. I want to speak to Him and I want to know Him. This is true Calvinism. And that, of course, leads to a love of His Word. You meet Him in the Word. The Word instructs you as to how to find Him; it helps you to understand the visitations and the withdrawing's. You live on the Word. Nothing so drives a man to the Word of God as true Calvinism.

Then, in turn, as I have been trying to say, true Calvinism is bound to emphasize the element of revival, the 'givenness' of the activity of God, the visitations of God. It is only since the decline of Calvinism that revivals have become less and less frequent. The more powerful Calvinism is the more likely you are to have a spiritual revival and re-awakening. It follows of necessity from the doctrine. You cannot work up a revival. You know that you are entirely dependent upon God. That is why you pray to Him and you plead with Him and you argue, and you reason with Him. These Fathers used to do this. How different is our approach to the condition of the church today from that which was true of these Fathers and their successors for several generations. Today we look at the situation and we say - 'Well, things are very bad, everything is going down - what shall we do? We had better have an evangelistic campaign.' So we call a committee together and we begin to organize, and to talk about what is going to happen in a year's time or so.

Calvinistic Methodists did not look at the problem like that. This is how they looked at it. They said, 'Why are things like this ? What is the matter? We have offended God, He is grieved with us, He has turned His back on us. What can we do about this? We must get down on our knees and ask Him to come back, we must plead with Him.' And so they would use the kind of arguments you find Moses using in praying to God in Exodus 33, or such as you get in Isaiah 63. They would reason and argue with God, and say, 'After all, we are Your people, not those others. Why do You not come back to us? We belong to You, Your name is involved in all this'. They would plead the 'promises' with God, they would agonize in prayer until God heard them and visited them again.

This is Calvinism. Nothing so promotes prayer as Calvinism. Calvinists who do not pray, I say, are not Calvinists. These things follow the one after the other as the night follows the day. The true Calvinist is concerned about revival. Why? Because he is concerned about the glory of God. This is the first thing with him. Not so much that the world is as it is, but that the world is behaving like this, and that God is there. It is God's world, and they are under God. The glory of God! This is the great thing which dominates all the thinking of the Calvinist. So he is waiting, and longing, and pleading with God to 'show' this glory, to show this power, to arise and to scatter His enemies, and to make them like the dust, and to show the might of His almighty arm. This is Calvinism. They want this. They are zealous, and they are jealous, for His name.
 
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P

preacher4truth

Active Member
Earth said:
The following 4 paragraphs are taken from Dr. Martyn Lloyd-Jones book The Puritans.

But more, Calvinism leads to assurance, and assurance of necessity leads to joy. You cannot be assured quietly and unmoved by the fact that your sins are forgiven, and that you are a child of God, and that you are going to heaven: it is impossible. Assurance must lead to joy. Not only that; knowing this leads to prayer. God is my Father. I am adopted. I know Him. I have an entrance, and I want to go there. I want to speak to Him and I want to know Him. This is true Calvinism. And that, of course, leads to a love of His Word. You meet Him in the Word. The Word instructs you as to how to find Him; it helps you to understand the visitations and the withdrawing's. You live on the Word. Nothing so drives a man to the Word of God as true Calvinism.

Then, in turn, as I have been trying to say, true Calvinism is bound to emphasize the element of revival, the 'givenness' of the activity of God, the visitations of God. It is only since the decline of Calvinism that revivals have become less and less frequent. The more powerful Calvinism is the more likely you are to have a spiritual revival and re-awakening. It follows of necessity from the doctrine. You cannot work up a revival. You know that you are entirely dependent upon God. That is why you pray to Him and you plead with Him and you argue, and you reason with Him. These Fathers used to do this. How different is our approach to the condition of the church today from that which was true of these Fathers and their successors for several generations. Today we look at the situation and we say - 'Well, things are very bad, everything is going down - what shall we do? We had better have an evangelistic campaign.' So we call a committee together and we begin to organize, and to talk about what is going to happen in a year's time or so.

Calvinistic Methodists did not look at the problem like that. This is how they looked at it. They said, 'Why are things like this ? What is the matter? We have offended God, He is grieved with us, He has turned His back on us. What can we do about this? We must get down on our knees and ask Him to come back, we must plead with Him.' And so they would use the kind of arguments you find Moses using in praying to God in Exodus 33, or such as you get in Isaiah 63. They would reason and argue with God, and say, 'After all, we are Your people, not those others. Why do You not come back to us? We belong to You, Your name is involved in all this'. They would plead the 'promises' with God, they would agonize in prayer until God heard them and visited them again.

This is Calvinism. Nothing so promotes prayer as Calvinism. Calvinists who do not pray, I say, are not Calvinists. These things follow the one after the other as the night follows the day. The true Calvinist is concerned about revival. Why? Because he is concerned about the glory of God. This is the first thing with him. Not so much that the world is as it is, but that the world is behaving like this, and that God is there. It is God's world, and they are under God. The glory of God! This is the great thing which dominates all the thinking of the Calvinist. So he is waiting, and longing, and pleading with God to 'show' this glory, to show this power, to arise and to scatter His enemies, and to make them like the dust, and to show the might of His almighty arm. This is Calvinism. They want this. They are zealous, and they are jealous, for His name.
Click to expand...

Jones nailed it. He is one of the best preachers ever. He said something like 'Why do I preach the Gospel? Because it works' and he is correct. His messages are timeless, and God granted to him much peace and wisdom. www.mljtrust.org is an invaluable resource of his messages. He is a tremendous blessing. 'Though he died, he still speaks'.

Now, not to be contrary, but think about the struggles of John Bunyan as opposed to Jones. Bunyan, reformed, a non-conformist, and he knew these truths, but he struggled for years with assurance, vehemently attacked in his psyche by Satan, spent much time in prayer, imprisonment, reading &c, and much time in struggle. I recall his heart for his children while in prison, and for one that was blind, trembling over if the wind would even blow upon his child. These trials are apparent in both 'The Pilgrim's Progress' and in 'Grace Abounding to the Chief of Sinners' especially.

But would a lost man even struggle with such notions? Not so. A lost man would never struggle against these things, so rest be assured to those who do have such a struggle. Everyone has a cross to bear.

Both Bunyan and Lloyd-Jones are now in the presence of Christ, their salvation secured by His work, and are both at rest, even though they had two contrasting paths.
 
Earth Wind and Fire

Earth Wind and Fire

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Thomas Helwys said:
Really? I challenge you to try and prove that false statement. The truth is that the word "heresy" is a favorite charge from you and your ilk.
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Tom...I don't understand the comment, your ilk in this sentence. Are you by chance suggesting the Calvinists? I sincerely hope not.
 
Earth Wind and Fire

Earth Wind and Fire

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preacher4truth said:
Jones nailed it. He is one of the best preachers ever. He said something like 'Why do I preach the Gospel? Because it works' and he is correct. His messages are timeless, and God granted to him much peace and wisdom. www.mljtrust.org is an invaluable resource of his messages. He is a tremendous blessing. 'Though he died, he still speaks'.

Now, not to be contrary, but think about the struggles of John Bunyan as opposed to Jones. Bunyan, reformed, a non-conformist, and he knew these truths, but he struggled for years with assurance, vehemently attacked in his psyche by Satan, spent much time in prayer, imprisonment, reading &c, and much time in struggle. I recall his heart for his children while in prison, and for one that was blind, trembling over if the wind would even blow upon his child. These trials are apparent in both 'The Pilgrim's Progress' and in 'Grace Abounding to the Chief of Sinners' especially.

But would a lost man even struggle with such notions? Not so. A lost man would never struggle against these things, so rest be assured to those who do have such a struggle. Everyone has a cross to bear.

Both Bunyan and Lloyd-Jones are now in the presence of Christ, their salvation secured by His work, and are both at rest, even though they had two contrasting paths.
Click to expand...

Martyn Lloyd Jones is kin. What I am showing you here is how a Welsh Calvinistic Methodist operated in his understanding of God and scripture and in it assurance was big with them. I tend to embrace that approach. But note, the assurance does not come without a long and serious prayer & contemplation & self evaluation...then the awareness comes.
 
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preacher4truth

Active Member
Earth said:
Martyn Lloyd Jones is kin. What I am showing you here is how a Welsh Calvinistic Methodist operated in his understanding of God and scripture and in it assurance was big with them. I tend to embrace that approach. But note, the assurance does not come without a long and serious prayer & contemplation & self evaluation...then the awareness comes.
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Bro, I understood all of that, my point was a contrast, some struggle and go back and forth, Bunyan, et al.
 
Earth Wind and Fire

Earth Wind and Fire

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preacher4truth said:
Bro, I understood all of that, my point was a contrast, some struggle and go back and forth, Bunyan, et al.
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Rob...my post was more directed at those who might be reading and not understanding. Anyway there are many who have never encountered a Calvinistic Methodist (they are pretty much extinct today). They are pretty interesting to me though as this is the religion of many of my ancestor's ...from grandparents on up. The closest ive seen today are the Old Regular Baptists and the Primitive Baptists.....other religious groups that very few understand as well :love2:
 
Y

Yeshua1

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Thomas Helwys said:
Really? I challenge you to try and prove that false statement. The truth is that the word "heresy" is a favorite charge from you and your ilk.
Click to expand...

can you give an example we might see as being heretical, while you see it as being acceptable?
 
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