Tariffs and Trade Wars and Trump....

[Calminian]

... Oh my! What to make of this?

I'm fine with it. If it were Bush I'd be worried as he has no idea how to win a war, but Trump seems much more competent. I agree with his comments on the matter.

Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump
When a country (USA) is losing many billions of dollars on trade with virtually every country it does business with, trade wars are good, and easy to win. Example, when we are down $100 billion with a certain country and they get cute, don’t trade anymore-we win big. It’s easy!
2:50 AM - 2 Mar 2018

Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump
We must protect our country and our workers. Our steel industry is in bad shape. IF YOU DON’T HAVE STEEL, YOU DON’T HAVE A COUNTRY!
5:01 AM - 2 Mar 2018

Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump
When a country Taxes our products coming in at, say, 50%, and we Tax the same product coming into our country at ZERO, not fair or smart. We will soon be starting RECIPROCAL TAXES so that we will charge the same thing as they charge us. $800 Billion Trade Deficit-have no choice!
5:57 AM - 2 Mar 2018​

I also don't buy into the rising prices argument. Yes, I suppose steel prices might go up, but taxes have gone down and we'll created a lot more jobs. What good are low prices if a huge segment of the population has no money to spend?

The same argument is used to justify illegal immigration. Aren't you afraid of rising lettuce prices?! No, I'm really not. What I really want is a healthy economy to do business in. I'll pay a little more for lettuce and bicycles.


Following Asian Stock Market Drop, President Trump Declares “Trade Wars Are Good, And Easy To Win”

 

[777]

that's about what happened a few years back when Obama raised tariffs on Chinese tires (forgive the source but the data is accurate):

Obama got tough on China. It cost U.S. jobs and raised prices

now that's somewhat different than the Trump tariffs - Obama's targeted a specific country and a specific product, Trump's is just on all steel imported.

Even so, sick of hearing that China just exports two percent of all steel used here - China is known to dump steel all over the world, and it;s true the steel tends to be inferior. If Trump did target China, they would open all their back doors wider.

Obama got tough on China. It cost U.S. jobs and raised prices

not a trade war yet, that will only happen if China slaps on a retaliatory tariff and that would wreck their economy short-term.

 

[church mouse guy]

Should help Pittsburgh and Gary. Should drive leftist insane and make Barbara Streisand get fatter eating all those stacks of pancakes to compensate for her lack of brains.

 

[FollowTheWay]

... Oh my! What to make of this?

I'm fine with it. If it were Bush I'd be worried as he has no idea how to win a war, but Trump seems much more competent. I agree with his comments on the matter.

Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump
When a country (USA) is losing many billions of dollars on trade with virtually every country it does business with, trade wars are good, and easy to win. Example, when we are down $100 billion with a certain country and they get cute, don’t trade anymore-we win big. It’s easy!
2:50 AM - 2 Mar 2018

Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump
We must protect our country and our workers. Our steel industry is in bad shape. IF YOU DON’T HAVE STEEL, YOU DON’T HAVE A COUNTRY!
5:01 AM - 2 Mar 2018

Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump
When a country Taxes our products coming in at, say, 50%, and we Tax the same product coming into our country at ZERO, not fair or smart. We will soon be starting RECIPROCAL TAXES so that we will charge the same thing as they charge us. $800 Billion Trade Deficit-have no choice!
5:57 AM - 2 Mar 2018​

I also don't buy into the rising prices argument. Yes, I suppose steel prices might go up, but taxes have gone down and we'll created a lot more jobs. What good are low prices if a huge segment of the population has no money to spend?

The same argument is used to justify illegal immigration. Aren't you afraid of rising lettuce prices?! No, I'm really not. What I really want is a healthy economy to do business in. I'll pay a little more for lettuce and bicycles.


Following Asian Stock Market Drop, President Trump Declares “Trade Wars Are Good, And Easy To Win”

A similar approach was tried by President Herbert Hoover (R) in 1930.
Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act
Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act | United States [1930]

Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act, formally United States Tariff Act of 1930, also called Hawley-Smoot Tariff Act, U.S. legislation (June 17, 1930) that raised import duties to protect American businesses and farmers, adding considerable strain to the international economic climate of the Great Depression. The act takes its name from its chief sponsors, Senator Reed Smoot of Utah, chairman of the Senate Finance Committee, and Representative Willis Hawley of Oregon, chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee. It was the last legislation under which the U.S. Congress set actual tariff rates.

Despite a petition from more than 1,000 economists urging him to veto the legislation, Hoover signed the bill into law on June 17, 1930.
Smoot-Hawley contributed to the early loss of confidence on Wall Street and signaled U.S. isolationism. By raising the average tariff by some 20 percent, it also prompted retaliation from foreign governments, and many overseas banks began to fail.

Within two years some two dozen countries adopted similar “beggar-thy-neighbour” duties, making worse an already beleaguered world economy and reducing global trade. U.S. imports from and exports to Europe fell by some two-thirds between 1929 and 1932, while overall global trade declined by similar levels in the four years that the legislation was in effect.

Some observers have argued that by deepening the Great Depression the tariff may have contributed to the rise of political extremism, enabling leaders such as Adolf Hitler to improve their political strength and gain power.

If Trump's tariff mistake is enacted we might very well see history repeat itself with the second Re4publican world depression and an increase in the power of extremist world leaders like Trump[ himself.

 

[InTheLight]

Here we go... TRADE WAR!!

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL

 

[church mouse guy]

This is about Chinese dumping.

 

[InTheLight]

Here we go... TRADE WAR!!

 

[InTheLight]

[..]
Some observers have argued that by deepening the Great Depression the tariff may have contributed to the rise of political extremism, enabling leaders such as Adolf Hitler to improve their political strength and gain power.

Hilarity. Here try this fill in the blank exercise:

Some observers have argued that by__________________________may have contributed to the rise of political extremism, enabling leaders such as Adolf Hitler to improve their political strength and gain power.

One could literally pick just about any phrase they wanted and "fill in the blank" and blame it for giving rise to Hitler.

 

[InTheLight]

Can someone that is in favor of the steel and aluminum tariffs and the resulting trade wars please tell us when you know you've won the trade war? When do you know you've won?

 

[777]

I really think the flaw in the Weimer Republic's constitution was the main reason for Hitler's rise to power but I doubt Smoot-Hawley was a factor. That tariff was different as well, over hundreds of products and did start a trade war, especially with Canada. They retaliated specifically with their own massive tariffs on US goods.

There is a much more recent example of a steel tariff imposed, GWB the big globalist tried it in 2002 against China, but the EU and others screamed so much against it, it was soon dropped and didn't cause a trade war. China just got around it by going third country again.

Not surprised Trump did this, he talked about all throughout the campaign - how do you win a trade war? The last country standing.

 

[InTheLight]

Not surprised Trump did this, he talked about all throughout the campaign - how do you win a trade war? The last country standing.

Being the last country standing doesn't sound like a win that is something "easy to do", as Trump tweeted.

 

[church mouse guy]

I don't feel sorry for China--they are propping up North Korea and threatening us with nuclear war. They are dumping steel. They are now a dictatorship with a ruler for life. No one can compete against another government's subsidized product. Steel production is necessary in war.

 

[Calminian]

This is Trump's element. None of the other politicians have the stomach for it, but neither do the snowflakes overseas apart from some partial dictators. This is his element. He's going to run circles and prove once again that many conservatives are not really conservatives.

 

[InTheLight]

Winning a trade war or even having a level playing field is not the end goal. Doing what is best for the US economy, the US consumers, and US workers is the goal. Most trade wars accomplish none of these things.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL

 

[Calminian]

Winning a trade war or even having a level playing field is not the end goal. Doing what is best for the US economy, the US consumers, and US workers is the goal. Most trade wars accomplish none of these things.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL

Thats because they were run by guys that don't know how to win any kind of war. GWB comes to mind.

But as some have pointed out, we are already in trade wars and losing badly. Trump is the first to come along and actually try to win a war we've been losing for decades.

 

[InTheLight]

What trade wars are we in?

 

[Calminian]

What trade wars are we in?

China - $636 billion traded with a $375 billion deficit.
Canada - $582 billion traded with an $18 billion deficit.
Mexico - $557 billion traded with a $71 billion deficit.
Japan - $204 billion traded with a $69 billion deficit.
Germany - $171 billion traded with a $65 billion deficit.

This is called losing. This is what your guys did to us. Trump is not one of your guys.

 

[InTheLight]

China - $636 billion traded with a $375 billion deficit.
Canada - $582 billion traded with an $18 billion deficit.
Mexico - $557 billion traded with a $71 billion deficit.
Japan - $204 billion traded with a $69 billion deficit.
Germany - $171 billion traded with a $65 billion deficit.

This is called losing. This is what your guys did to us. Trump is not one of your guys.

So losing = Record high stock market, record low unemployment, rising wages, strong dollar, highest standard of living in history, etc. etc.

So what is the definition of winning? Having a trade surplus? Venezuela has a trade surplus. Saudi Arabia, Russia, Netherlands have trade surpluses, etc. Is that winning?

 

[Calminian]

So losing = Record high stock market, record low unemployment, rising wages, strong dollar, highest standard of living in history, etc. etc.

So what is the definition of winning? Having a trade surplus? Venezuela has a trade surplus. Saudi Arabia, Russia, Netherlands have trade surpluses, etc. Is that winning?

Yes, now we're starting to win some other economic wars, thanks to Trump who you campaigned against. Had Hillary won, had you succeeded in drawing people away from Trump, the labor force would have continued to decline as it did under Obama. We're now seeing America become great again (no thanks to you).

And yes, when you lose entire industries to these trade wars, it's a bad thing. We should be making stuff here. It's part of national security. We should have our own energy and raw materials. It's stupid to do otherwise.

 

[Calminian]

BTW, I don't know where this concept was created, but some seem to think it's righteous to allow poor countries to take advantage of us. Where it comes from I don't know. Perhaps it's a theological hangup. But the fact is a healthy well off America is good for the world, and also a good tool in God's hands. We send more missionaries into he world than anyone else. That's takes money. That takes a healthy great homeland. Giving up our steel industry to other godless countries makes no sense economically nor theologically.