Tattoo's ?

[Irene Trowbridge]

You shaved this morning , was it your choice to cut your face?. Going back to tattoos 1Cor.10:19 What say I then? that the idol is any thing, or that which is offered in sacrifice to idols is any thing?
20 But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.
21 Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord’s table, and of the table of devils.
22 Do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? are we stronger than he?
23 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.
24 Let no man seek his own, but every man another’s wealth.
When the Spirit of God is not there, there is no conviction, no conviction where is the Spirit of God? Going to church do not bring salvation. Personal relation with the Lord trough the Holly spirit brings conviction. When, the child of God has a questions (let say bout tattoos,) what he does? If the Holly spirit is in him he goes to the Lord and ask Him (since he has communication with Father trough the Holly spirit) if the person doesn’t have Holly spirit where he goes ? Does it make any sense?

 

[Irene Trowbridge]

Uhhh, the modern Hippocratic oath is as follows:
I guess the doctors changed their gods and fallow The God of the Bible, or the snake has changed the skin?

[ August 09, 2004, 09:46 PM: Message edited by: rejoicevermore ]

 

[superdave]

23 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.

This is the operative verse in the passage. Everything else seems to be questions related to a specific cultural aspect that Paul was dealing with directly, not neccessarily directly applicable to our current culture, without the derivation of a principle.

It seems there has been some rather strong language in this thread about tattoos and what they mean. Not that I am endorsing them in any way, but it seems that there is a lack of clear Biblical directives that can be applied to the issue without:

1. Taking the verse completely out of context historically, culturally, etc.

2. Stretching the principle to apply in areas it really was not intended.

3. Setting up a straw man (of course tattoos are always aligned with Satan Worship, so they must be wrong)

The Bible cannot mean what it never meant. You have to apply the principles clearly taught to today's cultural context, or else you are going beyond the bounds of scriptural support

 

[Marcia]

Originally posted by rejoicevermore:
What about accupuncture, accupressure any idea to share? Thanks.

My problem with acupuncture is that it is based on spiritual belief that a universal energy, chi or qi, flows through the body and when it is blocked, one is ill. This also puts the yin and yang out of balance (in this view). Although some research has been done, it has so far only shown that acupuncture limits pain in a few situations (such as post-dental surgery) and they do not know why it works (though they think the needles trigger the release of endorphins). Also, just lying down or sitting for awhile while someone works on you tends to make one feel better (the needles supposedly do not hurt). This is why I would not do acupuncture. My issue with it is not with the needles themselves but the belief system behind the practice and what they think is being done.

Tattoos in the OT were forbidden because they were done as part of pagan ceremonies in honor to pagan gods. We have to make distinctions in the cultures here. To get a tatoo of a cross today, for instance, is not a pagan ceremony nor is it honoring a pagan god. Tattoos today are nothing like in the OT unless one is getting a tattoo that does honor a pagan god.

 

[steveo]

Why don't people just get temporary tattoos?
That way you can change it many times
One thing I have noticed is the ones I have known getting tattoos are always ones that are not christians or christians that are not serving Christ. I have never met a christian that is on fire for God that has said " I want a tattoo"
Just an observation, and no I don't think a tattoo will send you to hell.

 

[Eltrow]

I have a question for you Marcia. In Lev 19:28 God says don't get tattoos.(period) He doesn't say anything about the pagan culture of the day. Q: does God change?

 

[Eltrow]

I guess the point I have been trying to get accross is that the things we do has consequences that are not readily apparent. The Lord God says that He will visit the iniquities down to the third and forth generation. Our great grandchildren could reap the rewards of our actions.
Paul says:
Ro 14:21 [It is] good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor [any thing] whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

Ro 14:22 Hast thou faith? have [it] to thyself before God. Happy [is] he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.

Ro 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because [he eateth] not of faith: for whatsoever [is] not of faith is sin.

This last phrase is an adendem to everything he has just said and carries the principle to the full. And it doesn't just mean we get off if we believe we are doing good. Faith in the bible is inseparably linked to the Word of God. That which does not line up with the Word is sin. Plane and simple. Rom.8:5-9

There is nothing of your old nature that God likes. It is enmity(at war with)with God.

If you don't want the consequences of tattoos then don't get tattoos. If you don't believe there are any will not change the fact that there are. You may not see them, but your children's children will.

 

[superdave]

The Law contains many things that we no longer follow, are you advocating following the Mosaic law for moral guidance?

You have to interpret scripture in its literal historical context, not in a vaccuum.

You have heard about the guy who started picking random verses for his devotions and applying them literally. These are the three he found.

"And Judas went out and hanged himself"
"Go and do thou likewise"
"What thou doest, do quickly"

God inspired all these verses, he doesn't say anything in them limiting them to the specific context.

 

[Marcia]

Originally posted by Eltrow:
I have a question for you Marcia. In Lev 19:28 God says don't get tattoos.(period) He doesn't say anything about the pagan culture of the day. Q: does God change?

To rightly divide God's word includes taking in the cultural and historical context and comparing it with other scripture. Lev 19.28 is clearly talking about doing this in the context of pagan worship or beliefs:

You shall not make any cuts in your body for the dead nor make any tattoo marks on yourselves: I am the LORD.

Notice it says "for the dead." Since tattoo marks are mentioned with this one must ask, why is "the dead" mentioned here? I don't think God was talking about those today who are getting tattoos of flowers or crosses. Cuts are also mentioned here. In other passages, cutting one's self was done in a pagan context as in the Mt. Carmel passage where the Baal worshipers were cutting themselves to get Baal to light the altar (1 Kings 18:28).

A corresponding passage is Deut 14.1:

You are the sons of the LORD your God; you shall not cut yourselves nor shave your forehead for the sake of the dead.

Here again is "for the sake of the dead." It also mentions shaving the forehead. This has nothing to do with someone shaving their forehead just to shave; obviously, it is in context of "for the dead," a pagan practice, as is the cutting or tattoing.

Matthew Henry's view:

They must not make cuts or prints in their flesh for the dead; for the heathen did so to pacify the infernal deities they dreamt of, and to render them propitious to their deceased friends.

 

[Ben W]

Originally posted by Eltrow:
I have a question for you Marcia. In Lev 19:28 God says don't get tattoos.(period) He doesn't say anything about the pagan culture of the day. Q: does God change?

One Bible Study I was in we had quite the discussion on this. Throught the Old Testament there is situations where for example all the prophets of baal are ordered to be slaughtered, yet in modern times God's Grace avails for all. DId God change as such? I dont know, yet I think it is certainely a possibility.

 

[Barnabas H.]

rejoicevermore, forgive me for saying but your Bible quote has nothing to do with tattoos, it is out of context. On the other hand superdave hit the nail right on the head with his quote. (Just my two cents worth).

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by KJVBibleThumper:
I asked"do you think that God wants us to mutilate ourselves to show our "love" for Him?"

To show our love for him? No, he doesn't require that. However, that thought process does not in any way scripturally forbid tattoos, ear piercings, circumcisions, or shave, or have long hair, or have short hair, or shaved heads, etc.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by Marcia:
My problem with acupuncture is that it is based on spiritual belief that a universal energy, chi or qi, flows through the body and when it is blocked, one is ill.

That is the superstition that people used to explain why it worked. But the bottom line is that we've now learned that acupuncture stimulates the nervous system to fight many related ailments. Accupuncture is a valid medical treatment and is not a sin.

 

[Dr. Bob]

As my wife is a naturopathic doctor (utilizing the 64 meridian points on hands/feet for biofeedback of energy levels and computerized meridian stress assessment), she might take umbrage at questioning acupuncture or relegating it to Yin/Yang status!

www.phr.net

 

[Comrade]

We are not under the Law. We are to be separate, that is commanded in the NT. I believe in order to be separate it would involve not mutilating your skin. Another point is that the law is a good set of everyday guidelines. A lot of the law is not just because God said so but because It is healthy. A tatoo parlor has no health code rules so it can run as it pleases. If you do get one you might want to get your blood checked in 10 years because that is usually how long it takes for Hepatitis to show up. And one of the main causes for that disease is tatoos.

 

[blackbird]

Bingo!!! Comrade---you hit the nail right on the head! God is a "Stickler" for personal hygene and cleanliness---both of soul and body! Both are His--not yours!! Does He care what we do with our body??? You bet your bottom dollar He does!

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by Comrade:
We are not under the Law. We are to be separate, that is commanded in the NT.

I think we're all pretty much in agreement on that point.

I believe in order to be separate it would involve not mutilating your skin.

Well, again, it's subjective. We accept certain types of mutilation, such as circumcision and ear piercings, etc. I think, however, that the case can be made in regards to abuse of such.

Another point is that the law is a good set of everyday guidelines... A tatoo parlor has no health code rules so it can run as it pleases.

That may be true at the federal level and may vary from state to state, but in my region, tatoo parlors are well regulated. So are establishments that do piercings.

 

[Cix]

I'm a relatively new Christian, being born again last year. I believe in the inerrant authority of the Holy Scripture. When we are born again, the Holy Spirit inhabits our bodies. This body is his temple. Why defile the temple of Christ with marks on one's skin? Who are we trying to please with tattoos? Is it God, or is it men?

 

[Gib]

Self.

 

[DeclareHim]

I don't know if I could ever get my ear peirced to much pain.