Taught pretrib?

I don’t know what kind of spirit or spirits influenced these men to teach the false doctrine of the pre-trib rapture, but since it is expressly clear in the Bible that this is a false doctrine, these men most obviously had some very serious and deep rooted problems of some sort. And of course we need to separate the absurdly false doctrine of the pre-trib rapture—a doctrine invented by foolish and unlearned individuals in the midst of speaking in tongues and prophesying in the late 1820’s—from the historical doctrine of pre-millennialism.

 

Carl,

You are correct, we already seen falling away of 2 Thess. 2:3 is occuring, but do not forget also, we shall see the revealed of Antichrist first BEFORE our gathering together occured according 2 Thess. 2:3

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

Uh, great example of a good Christian post under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit by a dispensationalist!!!! (????)

I hear there is hope for John McArthur.

I have gotten a great deal of inspiration from John McArthur. I believe that someone like McArthur can most definately be inspired by the Holy Spirit in a certain area while not being inspired by the Holy Spirit in his interpretation of the Second Coming of Christ. Obviously, since the Godhead is not a contradiction, only one end times view is correct. After reading the scriptural cut-and-paste job that dispensationalists, especially, do with scripture it just serves to confirm my beliefs in Amillenialism!

Uh, well ok, so you're a Charismatic Baptist maybe? I would say that your beliefs are not scripturally sound on two points then. But that's another topic for another thread, if so.

However, the point is that absolutely no one is perfect in their interpretation of scripture on all the many facets of the mind of God as laid out for man in his inspired Holy Word!



[ March 22, 2005, 12:56 PM: Message edited by: Phillip ]

 

FOR THOSE WHO WISH TO EXAMINE THE ORIGINS OF "THE SECRET RAPTURE" THEORY, READ WHERE A CONTEMPORARY DISPENSATIONALISTS OPENLY ADMITS THAT IT WAS TAUGHT...

THOMAS ICE ON THE ORIGINS OF THE SECRET RAPTURE:

 

Now, if the above written by Thomas Ice is not enough for you to be concerned about where the origins of the "secret rapture" theory came from, read what a contemporary of J. N. Darby had to say about the "new view" that concerned him and many others shortly after Darby had begun speading his ideas within the churches.

"The Hope of Christ's Second Coming", 1864
by Samuel P. Tregelles.

[note: Tregelles was a member of the Brethren Movement and makes an interesting comment in his book. He says that belief in the secret pre-tribulation rapture originated about the year 1832 and in a footnote on the same page wrote:]

Tregellis was a Pre-millenialist, but even he states that those during the period of Darby, understood that the "secret rapture" theory was a "new teaching." Pre-millenialism was always considered one of the "aberrant" teachings amongst the mainstream church, but this "new idea" even concerned them!

[ March 20, 2005, 06:09 AM: Message edited by: covenant ]

 

Covenant,

"Inspiration" is not the correct term for what the Holy Spirit is doing for you. In the future, I would use the correct term "Illumination". The Bible is inspired, not your misguided interpretation of it. If you have felt inspired of the Holy Ghost, I would reexamine those beliefs because the Holy Spirit is out of the inspiring business. Just a heads up from a purveyor of the "false doctrine" (see craig's previous postings) of the pretrib rapture.

 

But I say vnto you, whosoeuer is angry with his brother vnaduisedly, shalbe culpable of iudgment; whosoeuer sayth vnto his brother, Raca, shalbe worthy to be punished by the Councill; whosoeuer shall say, Foole, shalbe worthy to be punished with hell fire. (Mat 5:22 Geneva)

Craig,

You seem to be a very angry person judged by the tenor of you posts. If I am misinterpreting this I apologise, but if not I shall pray that the Lord will deliver you from your anger.

In Christ,

Chad

 

Gopchad

History is history. Facts are facts. Read the above 2 posts of mine. One is of a contemporary of the man responsible for the major cause of "anger" and "divisiveness" within the church today, the other of a contemporary proponent and perpetuator of the erroneous "secret rapture" theory.

There is a righteous anger. And that is when perversion of God's Word is clear because it means that people are being mislead.

 

Angry ? About what would I be angry ? By the grace of God and through the ministry of the Holy Spirit it was made known to me that the pre-trib rapture is a false doctrine invented and purveyed by individuals who succumbed to influences very different from mine. Therefore, I am NOT angry, but very thankful that God spared me from the travesty of this doctrinal error .

 

Over the years I have seen the word of God perverted so regularly and consistently by so many Christians that I have learned not to allow it to get to me to the point of anger. Otherwise, I would be angry all the time. But then again, perhaps I have become too calloused. After all, I have personally seen many turn away from the Faith after having made some very wrong and irreversible mistakes in their lives do to the most dangerous and destructive doctrine of the pre-trib rapture, only to realize that their pastor was exceedingly careless in his study of the Bible and allowed himself to be deceived by the enemy to the point of teaching the very opposite of what the Scriptures teach regarding the rapture and the tribulation. And of course there are the countless millions for whom the Scriptures were written that they may be prepared to go through the Great Tribulation, but due to the false assurance of a false doctrine, will not be prepared to go through the Great Tribulation and therefore will perish for eternity in hell.

 

I believe the truth!

 

John Nelson Darby did not invent the truth—he invented a lie! Any “truth” that was invented in the 19the century by any man or woman—and there was no shortage of these inventions—is not the truth, but a lie—and we all know from whence cometh lies.

 

We keep posting scripture, but there is a Darby mindset that can't see past 1830.

A previous example was about the New Covenant discussion. Scripture was given, lexicons were used, words defined in dictionaries, pre-Darby commentators were used for support of mainstream thought for 1,800 years, contemporary authors concerns about the "new secret rapture" theory only a few years after Darby got it moving in the churches have even been posted on this thread along with a present day writer/theologian(?) that outright states that Darby was the originator of the doctrine.

It is not our fault you choose to stay in the dark. Take responsibility for it yourself. After all, it will be the Lord Himself that will hold each one of us personally accountable for our determination to find truth, or lack of it, in the end.

 

Angry ? About what would I be angry ? By the grace of God and through the ministry of the Holy Spirit it was made known to me that the pre-trib rapture is a false doctrine invented and purveyed by individuals who succumbed to influences very different from mine. Therefore, I am NOT angry, but very thankful that God spared me from the travesty of this doctrinal error .



</font>[/QUOTE]The ministry of the Holy Spirit?

Your spirits are mixed up.

1 Kings 22:21 And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him.

1 Kings 22:22 And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.


1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

1 Timothy 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;


Now try this.

Ephesians 1:15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,

Ephesians 1:16 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;

Ephesians 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

Ephesians 1:18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

Ephesians 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

Ephesians 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

Ephesians 1:21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:

Ephesians 1:22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,

Ephesians 1:23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

The hope of his calling concerns the redemption of your body at the gathering.
The riches of his inheritance, concerns Christ in you, the hope of glory at the gathering.
The exceeding greatness of his power concerns his power to raise from the dead and SET US, LIKE HE DID CHRIST, in the heavenly places in the ages to come. (Eph.2:1-7) That's at the gathering.

WHEN? BEFORE THE WRATH TO COME, the time of the woman in travail, the day of the Lord. (1 Thess.1,5) That ain't Darby, in 1830. It's Paul way before!

 

Carl,

Paul explicitly wrote that the rapture will not take place before the man of lawlessness is revealed. Paul also explicitly wrote that the rapture will take place at the blowing of the last trumpet.

2 Thess. 2:1. Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,
2. that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
3. Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
4. who opposes and exalts himself above every so- called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.
5. Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things?
6. And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed.
7. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way.
8. Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;
9. that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders,
10. and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved.
11. For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false,
12. in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.

1 Cor. 15:51. Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,
52. in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
53. For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.

There are seven trumpets that will sound. The last trumpet to sound is the victory trumpet, the seventh trumpet of Rev. 11.

Rev. 11:15. Then the seventh angel sounded; and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ; and He will reign forever and ever."
16. And the twenty-four elders, who sit on their thrones before God, fell on their faces and worshiped God,
17. saying, "We give You thanks, O Lord God, the Almighty, who are and who were, because You have taken Your great power and have begun to reign.
(NASB, 1995)

 

Carl wrote,

Matt. 12:32. "Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come. (NASB, 1995)